Casual Archipelago (Complete)

[Alex_Among_Foxes]

And that's ALttP finally done lol. Good luck on the last few games!

 

[Explorer of Time]

It doesn't look like I got any levels from that release. Since Setsuna has all her checks and is just waiting on one artifact from an inaccessible Doom 2 level, that means everything of mine that's left is either in PoryKid's or Arcaneum's games. Good luck to both of you!

 

[Devalue]

@Devalue are you able to just check if Golden Gauntlets show up in logic please? I just tried hinting for them (as I thought I need them for the last two trials in Ganon's Castle) but they don't seem to be coming up.

If they aren't, then I think I need to do the Water Temple and then Jabu Jabu's Belly to get the remaining Medallions...

Shows up in the playthrough route in spheres 1, 2, and 6. Should be able to grab them now, based on where they are at. Wants "Progressive Strength Upgrade". Covers the Goron's Bracelet, Silver Gauntlets, and Golden Gauntlets.

 

[Arcaneum]

OHHHHHHHH that makes sense as to why I couldn't see the Silver Gauntlets too, I'll search for that soon and see where they are to. Thanks!

 

[Explorer of Time]

@PoryKid575 I haven't played your game, but PopTracker says you can enter Go Mode with just the Red Pearl Bean. Is this correct, and if so, can you hint for it?

 

[Arcaneum]

Hey @Devalue sorry to be a pain but would I be able to just get OoT released please? The latter half of this thing has not been too great for me tbh and this game keeps unravelling and I'd like to just kinda put a lid on it all really, thank you!

 

[Devalue]

Hey @Devalue sorry to be a pain but would I be able to just get OoT released please? The latter half of this thing has not been too great for me tbh and this game keeps unravelling and I'd like to just kinda put a lid on it all really, thank you!

Done.

 

[Explorer of Time]

Sonic Adventure 2 is complete, leaving just the Doom games on my end. I'll post one last status update for them once I clear out all my new checks from Ocarina of Time.

 

[Explorer of Time]

Here's all the remaining items I need for my Doom games. Everything left is in @PoryKid575's Mario and Luigi, or locked behind a progression item from Mario and Luigi, meaning that if PoryKid can clear the game and release, I will immediately enter Go Mode. I have also found the Red Pearl Bean, which I believe puts PoryKid in Go Mode.

Doom 1:

Note: Everything left in each item's level, listed under its E_M_ level code, is accessible with just that one item. I can hint for one more item if I get Slough of Despair, the Deimos Lab Yellow Keycard, and at least one other Key.

Containment Area (E2M2) - Blue Keycard (1 Check): Probably not necessary for my goal, unless its one check ends up being a progression item.

Deimos Lab (E2M4) - Yellow Keycard (3 Checks): Hinted for, and found at Beanbean Outskirts Surf Beach Digspot 2.

Slough of Despair (E3M2) (9 Checks): Hinted, and can be found in PoryKid's Teehee Valley Before Popple Digspot 2.

Warrens (E3M9) - Red Skull Key (0 Checks): Doesn't unlock anything, but is necessary for my goal. I had hinted for this item by mistake, believing it to be the level's other skull key, and it's at Pants Shop Birdo Flag 3 in Porykid's Mario and Luigi.

And Hell Followed (E4M7) - Red Skull Key (2 Checks)

Rocket Launcher (0 Checks): The Rocket Launcher isn't necessary to clear this game or get any checks, now that I have all the other weapons, but it's my only unfound weapon and was hinted for back when I didn't have many weapons. It can be found at Beanbean Castle Town Beanstone 1.


Doom II: Hell on Earth:

Note: Everything left in each item's level, listed under its MAP__ level code, is accessible with just that one item. I can only get one more hint, if I get all three remaining levels and at least one Key from this list.

The Waste Tunnels (MAP05) (12 Checks): Setsuna's Artifact of Spirit requires this level, and it can be found in Gwarhar Lagoon First Underwater Area Room 1 Block. This will allow her to clear Metroid Prime's goal. One of the other checks here is the now-irrelevant Jewel of Open, making this have effectively 11 checks instead of 12.

The Crusher (MAP06) - Red Keycard (1 Check)

Refueling Base (MAP10) - Blue Keycard (0 Checks): This doesn't unlock any items, but it's necessary to reach the level's exit, so I need it for my goal.

Downtown (MAP13) - Blue Keycard (3 Checks): I don't think I need this for my goal, but it may hold a progression item I need in one of its three checks.

Barrels o' Fun (MAP23) (11 Checks)

Bloodfalls (MAP25) - Blue Skull Key (2 Checks)

The Abandoned Mines (MAP26) (12 Checks): Hinted for, and found in Bowser's Castle Roy Corridor Block 1.

The Spirit World (MAP28) - Yellow Skull Key (1 Check): Likely not needed for my goal, unless its one check ends up being a progression item.

 

[Explorer of Time]

I am now in Go Mode and should be finished in a couple hours. The only item I need for either of my goals is the Crusher Red Keycard, which is guaranteed to be in one of my games. @Setsuna, I have your Artifact of Spirit, also putting you in Go Mode.

 

[Explorer of Time]

Doom II has been cleared and 100% of its checks have been obtained. Nothing new for Metroid Prime aside from the last Artifact, though.

Just have to beat one more Doom 1 level (E3M2 Slough of Despair), and I'll be done with this Archipelago.

 

[Explorer of Time]

And that's Doom 1 complete. Every single check in this Archipelago has now been obtained. The final item was Marauders for Starcraft 2, if anyone was curious.

All that remains is for Setsuna to beat Metroid Prime, and then this Archipelago is done.

 

[Alex_Among_Foxes]

Congrats on the completion!

 

[Setsuna]

All that remains is for Setsuna to beat Metroid Prime, and then this Archipelago is done.

Thanks for the final Artifact! Consider this done, in that case.

I think I got unlucky with Prime, but overall it was nice to do this. Playing BRC was a more pleasant experience than I thought it'd be and got me to appreciate a couple of characters or points of levels. Messenger and Prime both feel like games that have the same issue of "Get this for me and then my entire game is open", but that could just be due to my bad luck in the latter. I have also now played Symphony of the Night in 3 different archipelagos in an entire month (this one, the Hexipelago, and a personal one I ran in my own time) and it was nice to fully experience that game again after a few years. I'm a bit tired of it now, but I think overall getting more experience with this kinda thing was really nice. Thank you for both allowing me in on this and allowing me to run some beta games I had absolutely no confidence in. As always, feel free to ping me whenever another of these happens, it'll be a joy to play in it.

It did feel like most of this thread was being run by EoT, especially in the later stages (though I assume that's because people like me and Alex didn't have much to update on) and whenever some things did get unlocked for me, I was out of the loop and needed to check on my own (which is absolutely my own fault). It did also feel like EoT was rushing this along and adding pressure to people like Arcaneum or PoryKid.
In the future, I just want more clear communication. And I don't mean that in terms of "You need to update me constantly", because I don't think that's what's needed, but there were times when I had no clue what was going on while feeling bad for other people around me getting pushed around.

Again, thanks for having me and congrats on the completion everyone!

 

[Devalue]

For anyone curious about the Eevee's color with the final mail upgrade:


Finished the last remaining goal. Concludes this Archipelago. Thanks everyone for participating. Attached the spoiler log below.

One question to everyone: How do you feel about more explicit activity requirements (and how long, if so)? Found the "Casual" part of this Archipelago to be ill-defined. What frequency of playing counts as "casual"? Means different things to different people.

Kind of hates to put more defined activity levels into the rules. Becomes less fun when people feel forced to play. Felt like people played when they had time, both in this Casual Archipelago and Hexipelago. Might help set some level of expectation, though.

Plans to start up the next Archipelago round about mid-January. (Might be away in late February or early March. Likely runs until that point with a mid-January start date.) Gives everyone some time to miss it, as well as test out other games. Will gladly let someone else host it, if they want to. Could create a short(ish?) guide on hosting a game here.

Do not forget the Archipelago happening as part of the Winter Wonderland PokeCommunity event. Look for that on December 7. Will be run by Arcaneum and TwentyExEx (James on Discord).
________

In the future, I just want more clear communication. And I don't mean that in terms of "You need to update me constantly", because I don't think that's what's needed, but there were times when I had no clue what was going on while feeling bad for other people around me getting pushed around.

Could you be more specific on what you think might help that, if possible? Perhaps a Google Sheet of information not covered by the Multiworld Tracker? Something else?

 

[Explorer of Time]

Final thoughts on my games:

Starcraft 2: Overall, I mentioned that I was kind of burned out on this, but I've realized now that, at that point, it was because I was getting sick with Covid at the time, and I do want to finish the storyline I was writing at some point. This specific SC2 Archipelago was not that satisfying since my arsenal ended up very similar to last Archipelago's, especially on the Protoss side where I could build Instigators from almost the very beginning, and I got two Spear of Adun ultimates early on as well. Removing Grant Story Tech made a couple of no-build missions require specific items like most Archipelago games, but SC2 was still extremely open-ended, probably the most open-ended Archipelago game there is.

I do think that I'll shift the "Raynor's Raider's vs. Koprulu Federation" plot to a different game's faction against my ex-space-pirate kleptocrats from my first Archipelago, since most of Starcraft 2's cast is dead at this point and there's less characters to write about. Hmmm... I did have the Eggman Empire do enough in my aborted narrative arc this time that they would make sense for a player faction in my next Archipelago, and Dr. Eggman would be a blast to write from an in-character perspective. At the same time, he's a straight-up villain and probably worse than the Koprulu Federation, and a more sympathetic characterization might not be that faithful to the source material. (Then again, my space pirates stole a Yu-Gi-Oh card from an ancient Protoss temple, so faithfulness to the source material might not be that important here). Whatever I pick, it'll have to be something sci-fi and from a game I'm actually playing, though.

Doom 1 and 2: In contrast to Starcraft 2, both Doom games were very closed-off and had dozens of progression items each, needed to do basically anything in the games. I think the sheer amount of items ended up being a bit overkill, and contributed to my being a bit overzealous in trying to get Arcaneum and PoryKid to play faster. I might start with all the Keys next time, but not the levels. Starting with no weapons but a pistol (and later chaingun) was really frustrating since I kept running out of ammo to shoot things with and constantly dying. I'll probably start with a Shotgun next time as well so I have something that can actually kill things. I might switch to just one Doom game next time if I want to keep the keys available to find, too.

Sonic Adventure 2 Battle: Starcraft 2 was too open, Doom was too closed, but this game hit the sweet spot of still requiring stuff, but not a ton of items. The only hiccups were the Shovel Claws being shoved deep in the back of one of Arcaneum's games and locking off nearly-everything, and a few hinted items not being found quickly by the players of the games they were in. It also didn't have a lot of checks and I might add on another 'sanity or two to add more, but I did have basically a third of all checks in this entire Archipelago thanks to the Doom games and SC2, so I might drop down to three games if I do that.

One question to everyone: How do you feel about more explicit activity requirements (and how long, if so)? Found the "Casual" part of this Archipelago to be ill-defined. What frequency of playing counts as "casual"? Means different things to different people.

I'd like to see a requirement to get at least a single in-logic check, plus any in-logic hinted items, in 48 hours, unless someone provides notice that they'll be unavailable for IRL reasons (like I was from my power outage).

If someone has zero accessible checks in their game, the 48 hours would not start until they got a progression item that made at least one check newly-available and they were notified about it. Exceptions would also occur for hinted items that are in-logic, but really time-consuming to get (e.g. it's at the very end of a long, linear game) or extremely difficult to get without more items (e.g. low stats and bad equipment) so long as at least some progress towards them was made.

This would still be a more casual pace than the fast archipelagos, but ensure that at least some progress is made every day or two, and that nobody is holding up the entire Archipelago for everyone else because of progression items in their game going uncollected. At the same time, if there aren't any hinted items, the activity requirements for most games shouldn't take any longer than a few minutes per game per day.

 

[Setsuna]

Could you be more specific on what you think might help that, if possible? Perhaps a Google Sheet of information not covered by the Multiworld Tracker? Something else?

I hate to give this answer but honestly, I'm not sure? Something like needing to update a google sheet or something just sounds like extra work, and honestly sounds bothersome. It sounds like it'd be these extra steps we'd have to manage and keep track of and would easily get annoying.

For example, this:

I'd like to see a requirement to get at least a single in-logic check, plus any in-logic hinted items, in 48 hours, unless someone provides notice that they'll be unavailable for IRL reasons (like I was from my power outage).

If someone has zero accessible checks in their game, the 48 hours would not start until they got a progression item that made at least one check newly-available and they were notified about it. Exceptions would also occur for hinted items that are in-logic, but really time-consuming to get (e.g. it's at the very end of a long, linear game) or extremely difficult to get without more items (e.g. low stats and bad equipment) so long as at least some progress towards them was made.

seems like a lot to keep in mind for every person, every game, what games are/aren't walled, etc. I think it's a good idea sure, but like a complete pain to have to keep track of. I think "make sure you get something in your game so people aren't waiting" is just like... a given.

So I don't have an exact answer for this kind of thing. The previous Archipelago didn't really feel like it had this problem, but this one seemed a lot smaller in terms of number of people, and I think being called a "casual" Archipelago to clear any confusion with the fast-paced Hexipelago definitely either confused people or implied something that caused misunderstandings.

 

[PoryKid575]

One question to everyone: How do you feel about more explicit activity requirements (and how long, if so)? Found the "Casual" part of this Archipelago to be ill-defined. What frequency of playing counts as "casual"? Means different things to different people.

I strongly disagree with explicit activity requirements, I don't feel like the lack of them delayed this Archipelago in a meaningful way; and I think people should be given the flexibility to play when they're comfortable barring extreme circumstances where someone is holding up everyone else for an extended period of time.

 

[Explorer of Time]

I don't feel like the lack of them delayed this Archipelago in a meaningful way

I apologize for the bluntness, but the whole group was delayed significantly by you not getting hinted items promptly. There was a part of the Archipelago where you let Arcaneum's final Chaos Emerald go uncollected for five days after it was first hinted, and Arcaneum took an extra couple days on top of that to actually clear the 2-5 minutes of gameplay and release Sonic Adventure 2. Me, Alex, Setsuna, and Vendily were all completely stuck, while what could have taken fifteen minutes in a competitive Archipelago, or a day or two in a reasonable casual archipelago, instead took a whole week.

 

[Setsuna]

I strongly disagree with explicit activity requirements, I don't feel like the lack of them delayed this Archipelago in a meaningful way; and I think people should be given the flexibility to play when they're comfortable barring extreme circumstances where someone is holding up everyone else for an extended period of time.

I'll mention that I didn't really care that I was walled off because y'know I expect that kind of thing to happen in an Archipelago and I've been busier/dealing with some stuff this month so another fast-paced kind of thing might've been a lot. But I will say that regardless of mandatory activity requirements or not, if you sign up you should play and keep on top of things. People can do whatever they want with their time, that's not my business, but in a group setting like this where several people can't proceed because they're depending on something from you, then it's no longer only your business.
And again, I personally don't mind having to wait a week or something. But I think that's more what I mean in terms of communication:

So I don't have an exact answer for this kind of thing. The previous Archipelago didn't really feel like it had this problem, but this one seemed a lot smaller in terms of number of people, and I think being called a "casual" Archipelago to clear any confusion with the fast-paced Hexipelago definitely either confused people or implied something that caused misunderstandings.

The previous Archipelago here didn't feel like it had that kind of situation, a lot of us were still learning what was going on and how to set things up or play, but it felt (to me at least) that things were engaging and progress was being made. Between both admittedly getting unlucky and having things like my Power Beam or Artifact of Spirit being late-game checks or behind a chain of items as well as the combination of not knowing what some people were doing/if they were still even playing mixed with feeling pushed around when I couldn't do anything, I think that's what left my dissatisfied.
I didn't know what you were doing, where you were at, or if you were waiting on anything to proceed, the most I got was just that EoT was talking about things in your game and pinging you.

I also don't want to bring up something from another event, but in the Hexipelago as well I had no clue you were playing or what was going on until someone else had told me you had cleared your goal and released your item, meaning I was sitting on some of my checks I didn't even realize I could access.

tl;dr, people being given the flexibility to play when comfortable is fine, but that means you're delaying everybody else, and people should be communicating any delays. My desires for a future Archipelago are more about talking more and respecting other people's time.