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"Cultural appropriation is the adoption or use of elements of one culture by members of another culture."
Whether it's white people wearing dreadlocks and bindi to Coachella, the sport of canoeing, eating sushi, or the use of tribal patterns, feathers and fringe in the fashion world, what do you guys think of this buzzworthy topic? Appropriation is defined as taking something without the owner's permission, but is it possible to obtain an entire culture's permission? Do you guys think it's a way to cherry-pick off certain aspects of minority's culture for the sake of appearing trendy or exotic, even though it doesn't really promote cultural acceptance? Do you think it
perpetuates racist stereotypes? Do you think it's fair that white culture and stereotypes are still fair game due to the concept of white privilege or is it a double standard? Is the whole idea of cultural appropriation nonsense in itself or is it toxic to society? Share your thoughts and opinions.
"Cultural appropriation" is great, and the only toxic thing about it is the supposed issue that some people are making it out to be. If someone wants to experience or make use of another culture's customs then that's absolutely to be encouraged. It'd be incredibly small-minded to say that everyone should be restricted entirely to their own culture. There's a world out there - expose yourself to it instead of staying in your own little corner.
It's rude, I think, and disrespectful to parody another culture while having no idea the significance of your actions. The problem I have is when someone tries to weigh in on something they have no idea about. Like, in American culture we can parody and make fun of our own history - like a ~sexy Abraham Lincoln~ costume for Halloween - because we generally have some background regarding that history and people are going to know that we have some context. We have (hopefully) some understanding of the level of offensive we're being. If I wear a ~sexy Prophet Mohammed~ costume I don't know if I'm being minor league offensive or if I'm doing the cultural equivalent of committing child molestation.
Now, some people will say that this is how the world works and people shouldn't be so thin skinned, but that's not an excuse for being a jerk. It's like the Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals. Technically, they are within the law, but they are still assholes and should have some consideration for the people they are hurting. They also can't expect that people won't try to call them out for their actions.
I guess it varies on a case on case basis. I know with my family at least (they're Southeast Asian they're totally fine sharing their customs to other people, whether it be clothing, food, language, etc. I also see some Tumblr posts where some white folks are like, "you're appropriating Japanese culture" and the Japanese folks overall are like, "nah, we're fine."
For some cultures though I do want to keep more on the safe side like Native Americans. There was this one time I went to a Pow Wow and it was fun talking with the Native American vendors and experiencing their culture for a bit, but I didn't really do much except try out their food haha.
In terms of appropriating white culture, for European ones at least I would be respectful of their culture if I get a chance to experience it.
"Cultural appropriation" is great, and the only toxic thing about it is the supposed issue that some people are making it out to be. If someone wants to experience or make use of another culture's customs then that's absolutely to be encouraged. It'd be incredibly small-minded to say that everyone should be restricted entirely to their own culture. There's a world out there - expose yourself to it instead of staying in your own little corner.
Nobody thinks everyone should be restricted entirely to their own culture. Nobody thinks it's appropriation to eat a certain type of food. There's a difference between appropriating another culture and taking part in/appreciating cultures other than your own. When the likes of Miley Cyrus randomly get dreads, twerk, rap and generally try to "act black" for popularity and financial gain, they are bastardizing and exploiting a culture for profit. When the likes of Adele are influenced by and take a genuine interest in black culture and develop a sound based on that, they are appreciating and doing nothing wrong.
The criticism of cultural appropriation isn't there to stop anyone from ever experiencing new things, it's to stop people from creating a mockery of other cultures and to encourage people to have respect and to educate themselves before deciding to wear a headdress to look "exotic". It's a complicated topic, no doubt, and it gets bogged down in semantics a lot. But it's definitely a problem, and not one you can offhandedly dismiss because you think people are gonna be mad at you for eating rice.
Nobody thinks everyone should be restricted entirely to their own culture. Nobody thinks it's appropriation to eat a certain type of food. There's a difference between appropriating another culture and taking part in/appreciating cultures other than your own. When the likes of Miley Cyrus randomly get dreads, twerk, rap and generally try to "act black" for popularity and financial gain, they are bastardizing and exploiting a culture for profit. When the likes of Adele are influenced by and take a genuine interest in black culture and develop a sound based on that, they are appreciating and doing nothing wrong.
The criticism of cultural appropriation isn't there to stop anyone from ever experiencing new things, it's to stop people from creating a mockery of other cultures and to encourage people to have respect and to educate themselves before deciding to wear a headdress to look "exotic". It's a complicated topic, no doubt, and it gets bogged down in semantics a lot. But it's definitely a problem, and not one you can offhandedly dismiss because you think people are gonna be mad at you for eating rice.
So its cultural appropriation when ones doesn't like it, and its appreciating when one does like it? Believe it or not, eating food is profiting. Adele is still profiting. Still gaining popularity.
Is there an actual objective standard for cultural appropriation? So far its so wishy-washy. Its only appropriation when it is subjectively perceived as offensive... so one person of a culture can find it offensive and and another could like it. An idea like cultural appropriation is absolute- it cannot be both offensive and not offensive at the same time. If that is how we are defining it.
I'm rather interested in the perception of this issue, to be honest. It's such an overlooked aspect of it.
In terms of the online world, I don't think there'd be nearly as much of a negative reception to the idea of cultural appropriation if the internet's perception of it wasn't so closely linked to their perception of Tumblr or the like. It's interesting - the idea itself certainly isn't outrageous, maybe difficult to process, but not outrageous. But it is so frequently treated like a hyper-exaggerated caricature of liberalism that it's no small wonder that it rarely has a chance to be discussed fairly.
Offline, I can't say that I've heard the topic of cultural appropriation mentioned outside of a) an academic context or b) 'political correctness gone mad' clickbait stories. Maybe it's just that I don't have the right social circles - so I don't really know what to say about that right now. But the divide is rather fascinating. I generally hear it mentioned positively, or at least discussed with respect to the idea of debate itself, when it is mentioned in an academic context. But cultural appropriation as represented in the media? The typical flamebait you would imagine. The idea is represented negatively because the general public still sees it as an unfamiliar or nonsense concept.
I might weigh in on my thoughts as to cultural appropriation itself, but I was just interested in talking about the way it has been seen in the minds of others.
It's cultural appropriation if it's disrespectful use of a culture with little thought given, wearing "indian" headress and tribal paint is cultural appropriation because it's disrepectful and pays no thought to actual native americans and their culture.
Things like consuming a product of said culture (Like sushi) or buying a dream catcher or something aren't because they're not inherently disrespectful
When the likes of Miley Cyrus randomly get dreads, twerk, rap and generally try to "act black" for popularity and financial gain, they are bastardizing and exploiting a culture for profit. When the likes of Adele are influenced by and take a genuine interest in black culture and develop a sound based on that, they are appreciating and doing nothing wrong.
I'd just like to take the moment and tap a little bit on my dais (or soap box) here.
Rap is not an exclusive. Music is not inherently one's or another's unless through unique creation and sound affirmation through designing a new instrument or by creating an original piece. For example: The Synthesizer. Is it rude and gross to appropriate the invention of Thaddeus Cahill? Is it disgusting or appealing to utilize a synthesizer or a wave emitter to attempt to create music? By the logic I can see from the 'Adele' end, being you can use their 'tone' or type of music, but not use it for 'evil' or by poorly using it for your own gains.
The Synthesizer is an electrical instrument, now, if you use the synthesizer (or a psudo-synth) in your music that talks of cutting drugs, or pimping women, or fighting the government, or any other controversial topic, is that not the 'bad' cultural appropriation you're against? Is Kanye West able to use the Synthesizer to talk about big juicy booty? Is that acceptable? Was it okay for NWA to use a Synth to talk about women in a negative light or to be 'Niggaz 4 Life'? I'm confused.
I don't particularly enjoy Miley's music or Adele's music but they're obviously free to use the medium however they see fit. So far I think the worst thing that Miley has ever done was attempt to cover Smells Like Teen Spirit. Now, speaking of covers, let's talk about Kanye's awful and horrendous rendition of Bohemian Rhapsody. Now, does Kanye attempt to 'capitalize' or 'profit' off of the work of Queen and Freddy Mercury? Is Kanye West attempting to appropriate homosexual culture?
I don't know much about this appropriation business, but I know music. It cannot be a one way street. You do not get to restrict an instrument to one group just because it is viewed as cultural appropriation. Let's look at some instruments, shall we?
The Violin is an Italian invention. By that vein, were Amadeus, Ludwig Van, Tchaikovsky, Johann Bach, Brahms and Chopin wrong in attempting to capitalize and profit from using the Italian made instrument?
What about the piano? Was Elton John, Billy Joel and Lady Gaga attempting to use the Italian instrument for their own nefarious purposes?
What about the Trumpet? Was Louis Armstrong wrong in using the ancient instrument? Was he attempting to usurp Europe's, Egypt's or China's culture then? Was Donald Byrd, Miles Davis, Hubbard and Fats attempting to do so as well? Even though they're black, were they trying to use the Trumpet to make money?
How about the Glockenspiel? Anyone who uses one now must surely be a Nazi, right? Anyone that now uses the French horn, Timpani drum, or any marching instrument whatsoever could possibly be mimicking the awful Nazi party.
Look, I may have gotten a tad facetious, and I do apologize for that but Music is just Music. I don't see anything wrong with the Beastie Boys spitting off lyrics about other dimensions or Slim Shady attempting to stand up. I may not agree with all of the rappers promoting drugs or cappin' asses and pimping hos, but I acknowledge that they have a right to do so. Is it worse if Lil' Wayne speaks of drinking and drugs or if the Beastie Boys are "tellin' all'a ya'll it's sabotage [waaaaaaagghhhhhhyyyyyyyy?]"
Music does not belong to any one culture. It cannot be appropriated and Music doesn't deserve to be dragged through the mud just because Miley Cyrus' butt jiggles to and fro, nor does Adele (even though I agree she's overrated) deserve to be berated for having a baritone voice and attempting to capitalize on it. Further more, if Miley Cyrus twerks I think I'd rather see her bare ass shake than see Rick Ro$$ affirm that he and Justin Bieber "fuck the same hoes"
TL;DR Music cannot be appropriated, it belongs to everyone.
Here's the pattern I see. The more historically oppressed the group is perceived to be, the worse it is to borrow anything from their culture. No real reason I can see why other than stigma. There is no fine line given between 'respect' and 'exploitation'. Apparently you can wear dreadlocks because they're cool, but wearing a headdress because it's cool is appropriation. Makes no sense to me.
Here's the pattern I see. The more historically oppressed the group is perceived to be, the worse it is to borrow anything from their culture. No real reason I can see why other than stigma. There is no fine line given between 'respect' and 'exploitation'. Apparently you can wear dreadlocks because they're cool, but wearing a headdress because it's cool is appropriation. Makes no sense to me.
The problem is you're conflating a hairstyle used by multiple cultures with a ceremonial cultural headress (Often not historically accurate or anything, just "looks the part").
I don't really get what you mean with a fine line between respect and exploitation? The two are fairly different mutually exclusive things and doesn't really apply to the examples you've given- halloween constumes of native american headresses are disrespectful examples of cultural exploitation while a not particularly uncommon hair style shared by several cultures isn't, for very clear reasons.
A lot of confusion is coming from the incorrect definition supplied at the top of the post though
I find this to be a mountains out of molehills kind of a thing. I think that there's a big difference between adapting and incorporating other cultures into your life and parodying them or just being a general asshole. The very nature of culture is that it changes and adapts over time depending on the groups you come into contact with so a natural side effect of such a connected world is that culture is going to be "appropriated".
I think the real problem with cultural appropriation is that all the various aspects of adapting or adopting cultural trends are jammed under one label that has intrinsically negative connotations. A lot of what is labelled cultural appropriation is normal, natural and even positive but because it is all grouped under the same umbrella as negative behaviour, it automatically is viewed as some sort of ultimate evil.
I mean, this might just be me being a dirty globalist, but I say so long as the history of how cultural trends came to be is remembered and respected then it's perfectly fine to enjoy, embrace, adapt and even profit off of the culture of others. That's how culture works on a global scale.
The problem is you're conflating a hairstyle used by multiple cultures with a ceremonial cultural headress (Often not historically accurate or anything, just "looks the part").
I don't really get what you mean with a fine line between respect and exploitation? The two are fairly different mutually exclusive things and doesn't really apply to the examples you've given- halloween constumes of native american headresses are disrespectful examples of cultural exploitation while a not particularly uncommon hair style shared by several cultures isn't, for very clear reasons.
A lot of confusion is coming from the incorrect definition supplied at the top of the post though
I knew what cultural appropriation was before this thread, it has nothing to do with that.
I still do not understand. What is disrespectful about wearing a headdress? It's not used historically accurately, sure, but then, neither is a costume of a knight. What if I want you to respect my medieval heritage?
Edit:
I'm just looking at Gimmepie's post now and I do want to note that there are obviously ways that you can use someone's culture disrespectfully. If I start acting downright racist by copying someone's culture mockingly then I'm being a tool, of course. I just don't see a problem with appropriation in a general sense. Like, I don't see why any aspects of a culture should be more sensitive than others.
It's like the Westboro Baptist Church protesting funerals. Technically, they are within the law, but they are still assholes and should have some consideration for the people they are hurting.
I knew what cultural appropriation was before this thread, it has nothing to do with that.
I still do not understand. What is disrespectful about wearing a headdress? It's not used historically accurately, sure, but then, neither is a costume of a knight. What if I want you to respect my medieval heritage?
In the instance of war bonnets, it's seen as deeply disrespectful for even members of those tribes to wear them without earning them. You can kind of compare it to going out and buying a knock off of some sort of prestigious military metal and wearing it around--most people wouldn't do that as it would be disrespectful to war veterans.
In the instance of war bonnets, it's seen as deeply disrespectful for even members of those tribes to wear them without earning them. You can kind of compare it to going out and buying a knock off of some sort of prestigious military metal and wearing it around--most people wouldn't do that as it would be disrespectful to war veterans.
You say that, but a quick Google search will bring up tons of soldier Halloween costumes which include fake medals. Would seeing a child dressed like that offend you? In terms of someone wearing fake medals on the daily, I wouldn't really find it disrespectful. I'd find it a bit attention seeking, sure, but I wouldn't think they were being especially rude.
Let me try a different analogy. If you saw someone wearing a fake crown, should a British person such as myself (whose country has a monarch) be offended?
Edit:
I'm just looking at Gimmepie's post now and I do want to note that there are obviously ways that you can use someone's culture disrespectfully. If I start acting downright racist by copying someone's culture mockingly then I'm being a tool, of course.
I just wanted to point something out that you made me think of. In terms of 'appropriation' I don't think throwing on a head dress, making sounds with your mouth and saying "How" in a deep and mocking voice counts as an 'appropriation'. I doubt anyone would consistently utilize such an act privately and not for satirical purposes. I believe that a one off or even a two-off does not count as .appropriating. a culture. Disrespecting a culture, absolutely, but I feel that 'appropriating' would mean more like a long term kind of thing.
It's cultural appropriation if it's disrespectful use of a culture with little thought given, wearing "indian" headress and tribal paint is cultural appropriation because it's disrepectful and pays no thought to actual native americans and their culture.
Things like consuming a product of said culture (Like sushi) or buying a dream catcher or something aren't because they're not inherently disrespectful
I didn't get it at first myself, then I saw an article about the gentrification of a poorer neighborhood somewhere in the states (i forget where) and how a local BBQ joint that had been family run and community driven for decades had been forced out due to rising costs and replaced with a hipster BBQ joint that was completely void of soul or heart and had removed any trace of the original community hotspot and it really wound me up. Then I realised that is what cultural appropriation is. Taking something, removing it's context and showing it complete disrespect.
To people using the food vs dress example, why is wearing tribal paint or a headdress worse than, say, eating sushi? I'm struggling to see the distinction between eating someone else's food and wearing someone else's clothing. If, as outlined in the OP, "Cultural appropriation is the adoption or use of elements of one culture by members of another culture." then why are the two being viewed differently? I'm seeing "one is inherently disrespectful" and things like that but not any real reason why. (I'd reply individually to you, Grey Wind, but it's a general question which fits your reply and others)
