Faeries & Lycans [Epilogue]

[Lucid]

[BURN] Sopheria


I just wanna see how this plays out.

 

[Netto Azure]

Current vote tally: 6:40PM

Ice
Nagi
Cosmic

Sopheria
Sonata
gimmepie
Jupiter
Klippy
Ash
Infinite
Candy
Lucid
Ninja Aiden

Sonata
Shak
Sopheria
Fantome
Ice
Netto Azure
gio7sm
no

Shak
Lycanthropy
Orpheus
Melody
Eros

Not planning on changing my vote atm. We'll see how this plays out.

 

[Shak]

I can't believe I read it all. (I just realized there's a tl;dr at the end :c Meanies)

If I were to choose between Shak and Sonata, I think I'll believe the one who said that they get riddles. Idk, a SA without any powers (even at least a limited) one until the Seer dies... It sounds boring (and useless). XD

It is.
Due to all the sopheria votes I'm assuming people never read my mega post(I cant really blame you, but still. Ninja Aiden was claiming I was showing the flaws in his argument. So I tediously went back and did it. I will never do it again-_-)
We'll just have to see how this plays out

 

[Klippy]

I think if Sopheria doesn't pan out for us, we really do need to consider Shak or Sonata. Or perhaps even look at alternatives. Sopheria being innocent would look bad on a few people who targeted her a few days ago and then continued their warpath today. If she's a Lycan, we need to see who suggested her and consider getting more info from them if they have it.

 

[Circuit]

Spoilered because I doubt people at this point need further proof that Shak's arguments aren't exactly wholesome for the position he's claiming to be in. And his actions just don't make tactical sense, which I find very odd.

Spoiler:

1. So I have been successful in my 'half-hearted' attempts to 'fool' the majority. If that's all I did, why were so many people convinced? Do you really believe that people are blindly following me on a Sonata lynching quest? Clearly they must've had their own suspicions to follow such a 'mediocre argument'. If they had their own suspicions, Sonata must have done suspicious things.
Now lets evaluate Sonata's reason for wanting to Lynch Sopheria....'That being said, if you will trust me and vote with me then I will reveal in the last minutes of the day phase.'
That's a direct quote. You can go back and find it of you want, but honestly its the only 'useful information' he uses to support his claim.
This is based on nothing, he simply say's it. Then he leads on to claim a role

Yes, but he has claimed to have solved these riddles, the set of four that incriminates a player, to find that Sopheria is guilty. He has explained to us how he received his information, and that upon solving these that is the conclusion drawn. He claimed the role before you did, putting a role to use that MUST have a use by day three, otherwise what is the point? We may as well give up and allow the Lycans to win since there would be next to no chance of us stopping them. I also have a response for you claiming the role is useless, and acts as a normal elf, later on.
The next reason I defend him, with him giving us just a claim to information achieved through a role, is that he is the best chance we have right now of successfully lynching Lycans. Sonata knows that if Sopheria is lynched, then he will be killed. Straight away. That would be the natural reaction. So why ask for so much faith like that? At the very least, his plan will give us an idea on where to move to. He's better alive to us now, than dead.

No one recognises this as legit. Sonata himself directed me to this message, which I decided to check out. I was inclined to believe it having forgotten my role(Since in has no night capabilities, and acts as a normal elf) But I felt the need to check my own role only to find out it's exactly the same as the one Sonata claims. So of course, I call him out. You then lead on to immediately jump to his defence, claiming every part of his claim is believable.
And according to you now, 'everyone who has voted for Sonata is both suspicious and not suspicious'? Why is this? They're suspicious because they've done something not suspicious? This makes absolutely no sense. They have voted on the basis that they don't believe your rant on why Sonata's claims 'sound legit'.

I'm sorry, the original role description isn't legit? Lol wut? This whole part of your argument makes no sense. Why would you forget such an important role? Lmao, that's just silly.

Secondly, everyone supporting you is suspicious, because it doesn't take much to read through your arguments, and find that you are actually, quite inconsistent and that your arguments just don't add up right now. Not to mention some of what you say just doesn't make sense.

My role has no night abilities, and useless unless the original Seer dies. So what reason would I have for revealing it? Sonata's claim to the role made me more suspicious of him than I was before. You advise that I wait for him to slip up, before taking action and trying to get him lynched? How could him surviving possibly have helped us, as I've said before he would've just killed more innocents?
I'm under no impression that Sopheria is innocent.(Although Sonata being a Lycan would make that a very likely conclusion at this point)

That is simply wrong. It's not useless until the Seer dies. It's useless until a dire circumstance appears, FOR EXAMPLE; the original Seer dying. It was an example, not the activation requirement of the ability. And if you truly did have this ability, why did you reveal yourself? If you have such an important ability, it would have been much safer to remain hidden, wait until Sonata's trick backfired and then revealed yourself when you had information. Using your ability to shut someone down without any information to provide is just plain useless. You just remove a very helpful ability from the game and reduce the innocent's survival chances.

How do you know Ice wouldn't have died? Fox's death was based on a joke, so why couldn't the same happen to Ice? Again this is assuming Ice is an innocent.
Sonata claimed to be the Seer Ascendant, so why would I consider him being the Seer. I'm not out to become the Seer, as that wouldn't benefit the Haven in any way.
I am the Seer ascendant. I act as an elf until the Seer is dead, meaning if the Lycans kill me after Sonata's death they will have killed a havenite without a night ability. In other words I'm risking my own life in order to kill some one who has given me a solid reason to believe they are not a Havenite. Is that so wrong?
You'll actually find it does affect the number of innocents that die. If I stop an innocent from getting voted because of Sonata's(the guy who has claimed the same role as me, making him look like a Lycan) influence, and instead have Sonata get voted, that means a Lycan and an innocent get killed
1 Lycan + 1 Innocent =1 Innocent
1 Innocent + 1 Innocent=2 Innocents

Had you not revealed, Sopheria would have died, because we'd be following Sonata's plan for the time being, until he was exposed or was correct. At the tally MI had 1 vote. Under the circumstances, voting for a joke when someone claims to have information is just plain stupid. That would result in more innocents dying and would equate to said person likely being a Lycan, or playing badly. You revealing doesn't save anyone either. Before you intervened Sopheria had garnered the majority of the votes. With your so-called "intervention" which was very poorly played, Sopheria still has the most votes, because you either can't play well in this kind of situation, or just don't have the information necessary to change the votes. Not having the information at this stage means that you are very likely lying, because why would a role be left unused by Day Three? I keep saying that would make a role redundant, and would not keep the game flowing very well.

The role is activated when the first Seer dies. I've said this already :|

Already said why this is wrong. That activation requirement was an example, and not the sole requirement for the Seer Ascendant to become useful. Go read the role description again.

This part is just nonsensical. You are basically saying that you'd rather follow the plan of some one who might be trying to kill you, than not have a plan. We look for lead to find the Lycans. So why not take the chance to kill them when the chance arrives? Or would you rather wait for two plans to kill the same people? Meanwhile he kills Havenites.

The chance will arrive, when we determine what side Sonata is on. Not before. Your entire argument has not given us any new information, because you have none to provide, so we're no better off than before you had said anything. If Sopheria IS a Havenite, then Sonata will die, and that's one Lycan, and we'll maybe believe you, and you'll be expected to share information the moment the opportunity arises. If Sonata gets us to Lynch a Havenite, do you really think we'll let him live afterwards? He has the opportunity to kill ONE of us. No more. The pressure is on him to get this right, because if he's wrong then he dies. I don't know where this idea that he'll kill many of us has come from. Think logically dude.

I know I have the role, I'm already half way there. The only question here for me is-Can there be two Seer Ascendants? I don't think so

You "know" you have the role. We don't, and you haven't actually proposed any reasonable or believable evidence that you have this role and that Sonata is lying. I'm sorry dude, but I really don't think you have this role.

You contradict yourself here. You say you want some one to give you a plan and drive you forward, but when I offer that you say I'm playing a double bluff. Where's the consistency?
I still don't see how this would be a good plan for me. If I were a Lycan I'd be voted the very next day, should Sonata be proven innocent in death. Whereas as a Havenite, my innocence in death will have Sonata killed, and since I believe he's a Lycan this is a good thing

I don't actually. I do say I want a plan and a way to move forward with well-directed lynches, but you did NOT offer that at all. You simply want us to lynch Sonata because you SAY he's "stolen" your role. That's not a plan, that's you trying to get everyone to kill him by behaving like a little kid whining; complaining that his friend stole his toy car, when it never was his in the first place. Let me answer your argument to this. No it wasn't Sonata's role either, however he made a very good case to claim ownership of it. All you did was claim he stole it from you, with no "receipt" of ownership to back up your argument. The only thing you've said so far, repeatedly may I add, is that Sonata has claimed to have your role.

We can kill him easy by voting for him in numbers. We can't kill him easily if we let him pick us off one by one.

Which we're not going to do. You realise that if people follow his plan, kill Sopheria and she turns out to be an innocent, then Sonata will be lynched tomorrow guaranteed. That's how this will go. Again, I don't know why you seem to think he has the opportunity to kill more than one of us.

How and why would he kill his fellow Lycans?
This seems complete nonsense to me. 'If he consistently kills his fellow Lycans'-What if he doesn't. surely that's more likely anyway

Firstly, your quote from me is wrong. I said "If he consistently kills Lycans". I at no point said "fellow". And he will kill them by solving the riddles he is given and telling us who to vote for. He has already told us how he is getting the information.

If Sopheria turns out to be a Lycan, then he likely has the ability to discover who is a Lycan. I don't see how this comes down to probability in anyway? Probability doesn't apply here since he wouldn't simply be guessing or pulling a name from a hat.

Anyway. Tl;dr: Shak has some very incomplete arguments that don't add up to him being a Seer Ascendant, nor do they in anyway disprove that Sonata is the Seer Ascendant. The only way we will know for sure is by following Sonata's plan for now to discover if Sopheria is a Lycan like he claims. If not, then we know exactly what his plan is., and what to do.

[KILL]: Sopheria

I'm also well aware that if Sonata IS correct and Sopheria is a Lycan, then I will move very close to the top of the hit list. If Sopheria is a Lycan, the Medic MUST protect Sonata. If she's not then the Medic MUST protect Shak, until further information becomes available.

 

[Sopheria]

I just hope after I die, Sonata doesn't come back saying something like "Okay guys, guess I got the riddle wrong. But I'm totally the Seer Ascendant, so let's try the next person I got from my nightly riddles!" Not sure how likely that is, but in the case that it does happen, don't buy it!

 

[Shak]

I just hope after I die, Sonata doesn't come back saying something like "Okay guys, guess I got the riddle wrong. But I'm totally the Seer Ascendant, so let's try the next person I got from my nightly riddles!" Not sure how likely that is, but in the case that it does happen, don't buy it!

I'm glad you said that.
First he said that he had two people, now he's saying he has three.
We shall see tonight....
(I kept this short because of the whole TL;DR campaign. Which I totally understand tbf)

 

[Yukari]

I just hope after I die, Sonata doesn't come back saying something like "Okay guys, guess I got the riddle wrong. But I'm totally the Seer Ascendant, so let's try the next person I got from my nightly riddles!" Not sure how likely that is, but in the case that it does happen, don't buy it!

If that's how it is we all know what he said was bullshit and we will all promptly kill him.

Your sacrifice will not be in vain. ;~;

For the record I didn't vote for you so I had nothing to do with your execution!

 

[Circuit]

I just hope after I die, Sonata doesn't come back saying something like "Okay guys, guess I got the riddle wrong. But I'm totally the Seer Ascendant, so let's try the next person I got from my nightly riddles!" Not sure how likely that is, but in the case that it does happen, don't buy it!

Your death will bring the most amount of information I think we'll have had all game. Either way, we're getting a Lycan almost guaranteed, unless this is some all-encompassing trick and we have super smart Lycans at which point we may as well give up lmao

I will flip a switch if this goes decidedly awry.

 

[Klippy]

I'm still of the opinion that none of them are Lycans. I think Sopheria is a basic innocent, and possibly the other two are actually Seer and Seer Ascendant. But I have no logical basis to go after anyone else except MorallyIce (he hasn't died yet and it's been too long for his usual lifespan).

 

[Shak]

I'm still of the opinion that none of them are Lycans. I think Sopheria is a basic innocent, and possibly the other two are actually Seer and Seer Ascendant. But I have no logical basis to go after anyone else except MorallyIce (he hasn't died yet and it's been too long for his usual lifespan).

If I'm completely honest Ninja has made me doubt Sonata's Lycaness. However, my biggest fear is that you're right and that I've done all this with no positive implications for the group
Sonata's claims are still just about dodgy enough for me to not trust him though.

 

[Nakuzami]

Klippy literally has no interest in this game beyond killing MI. Guys, you know what has to be done.

 

[Juno]

I'm still of the opinion that none of them are Lycans. I think Sopheria is a basic innocent, and possibly the other two are actually Seer and Seer Ascendant. But I have no logical basis to go after anyone else except MorallyIce (he hasn't died yet and it's been too long for his usual lifespan).

I dunno, someone's gotta be a Lycan, or at least lying. Unless you're suggesting one of them completely misread their role PM.

 

[Klippy]

Klippy literally has no interest in this game beyond killing MI. Guys, you know what has to be done.

Melt the Ice and start global flooding? OK.

I dunno, someone's gotta be a Lycan, or at least lying. Unless you're suggesting one of them completely misread their role PM.

I think one of them might be the Seer and the other is his apprentice who will replace the other at death. So they both made the error of revealing early. :/

 

[Winter]

Klippy literally has no interest in this game beyond killing MI. Guys, you know what has to be done.

So you're saying we should just kill Klippy?

 

[Juno]

I think one of them might be the Seer and the other is his apprentice who will replace the other at death. So they both made the error of revealing early. :/

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°) I don't really follow, they're both claiming to be the Seer Ascendant specifically, and are describing very different versions of that role in particular.

----

Anyway, been thinking about it a bit more, and I don't think killing Sopheria helps any. There's still too many 'what if's even if we know her alignment. If she's innocent, Sonata could be lying or just bad at riddles. If she's Lycan, Sonata could be the SA, or this could just be a plan to gain our trust so that we'll follow his lead for however long we continue to trust him. And because of the nature of the role he described, we won't expect him to help us get the right person every time.

Personally, I think the best course of action is to skip the middleman and just go straight for Shak or Sonata. Either way, we'll have our answer.

[Kill] Sonata

 

[Klippy]

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°) I don't really follow, they're both claiming to be the Seer Ascendant specifically, and are describing very different versions of that role in particular.

Then what I mean to say is one is incorrect, but possibly still the Seer. Or one is lying, which is likely Shak, since Sonata knows better than to make an error. Or possibly he's lying for another reason. Hm.

 

[Sonata]

( ͠° ͟ʖ ͡°) I don't really follow, they're both claiming to be the Seer Ascendant specifically, and are describing very different versions of that role in particular.

----

Anyway, been thinking about it a bit more, and I don't think killing Sopheria helps any. There's still too many 'what if's even if we know her alignment. If she's innocent, Sonata could be lying or just bad at riddles. If she's Lycan, Sonata could be the SA, or this could just be a plan to gain our trust so that we'll follow his lead for however long we continue to trust him. And because of the nature of the role he described, we won't expect him to help us get the right person every time.

Personally, I think the best course of action is to skip the middleman and just go straight for Shak or Sonata. Either way, we'll have our answer.

[Kill] Sonata

So you're gunning for me...because seer ascendant isn't a good enough role to keep around? If I can get the riddles right it still gives us 2 names to look at. This time I just can't figure out the other name because from what I've figured out, the other riddles I was given all don't relate to one person. Either that or I'm just dumb. But I am sure that Sopheria is not a havenite.

 

[Yukari]

Melt the Ice and start global flooding? OK.



I think one of them might be the Seer and the other is his apprentice who will replace the other at death. So they both made the error of revealing early. :/

Problem with that is that the description of the Seer doesn't match what either of them are saying.

Once the highest power in all of Haven, the Seer was originally a spiritual leader and guide for the town. Ever since the Hellspawn conflict five years ago, however, true spirituality has been in short supply, thanks to the murders of both the Seer and Seer Ascendant. The current Seer is self-taught, having done so in an attempt to take up the mantle of Haven's oracle. Because of this, the current Seer is poorly trained and comparatively weak, but still holds enough power to see into the realms beyond and discern the truths of the supernatural. Once per night, they can look into the soul of an individual and see whether it is pure or beastly.

There's no mention of "Riddles" anywhere there so I don't think that Sonata is Seer. This sounds like a regular Detective role.

 

[Klippy]

Okay...not that I'm defending either of them, but a role description in the OP does not designate the exact role specifications or clues a member will receive in their PM. It can be an entirely different PM or exactly the same. The argument that "what x says doesn't match what the y role says" is moot when a GM doesn't need to share information about said role in their OP.