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If I had a dollar for every gender...

Yes gender and sex are two distinct things, your sex being the chromosomal designation and gender being a range of characteristics relating to masculinity and femininity. Your gender is derived from your biological sex. Gender identity is a whole different thing. However you personally identify is your gender identity - but this does not change your gender. There are not "infinite genders". There are two: male and female. While it's true that not every single individual will fall into these discrete categories due to chromosomal aberrations in which they are born hermaphroditic, any third gender designation will indubitably be governed by varying degrees of masculinity and femininity. And frankly transgenderism has no effect on this -- whether you believe male-to-female transgendered people to be women or men that's still two discrete genders. The reverse obviously follows too. The idea of someone being gender-neutral or genderless or -- even more dubiously -- some abstract third gender doesn't make sense. Instead of shattering traditional roles, these individuals would rather flag themselves as mentally ill to their peers.

I do find it interesting that you brought up the APA, Psychic, for they are the ones that describe gender identity disorder as a psychological disorder in the DSM-V. Of course as you mention homosexuality was also listed as a disorder in the DSM-III. I agree with its removal, but you should keep in mind the history behind its removal. It was not as if psychologists who served the APA came together, considered opposing viewpoints, and presented evidence regarding the manifestation of homosexuality as a form of mental illness. Rather it was social pressure from activists groups which had it removed. Suddenly millions of Americans that had been mentally ill became well. Of course I'm sure we can both agree these people were not mentally ill to begin with. But gender dysphoria -- with or without social stigma -- certainly presents severe psychological dysfunction and impairment which are easily identifiable. If the APA continues to take pressure from activists groups to override their own psychological research in informing the content of the DSM, the legitimacy of the whole field will be called into question.
 
You might be a girly dude, but your still a dude. Vice versa as well. And thats fine. Be you.
 
All gender is is an arbitrary set of traits and behaviors (both how the individual is supposed to act, and how others are supposed to act toward them) that has for some reason for millenia been linked to a person's sex, despite no real known correlation between the two.
 
Nah said:
All gender is is an arbitrary set of traits and behaviors (both how the individual is supposed to act, and how others are supposed to act toward them) that has for some reason for millenia been linked to a person's sex, despite no real known correlation between the two.
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Even if we accept your definition of gender as entirely precise, sex and gender are still highly correlated. Most people are cisgender and most people conform, even if loosely, to ascribed gendered behaviors. The link between the two (not for millenia, but rather for all of human existence) is innate; even for individuals who are transgender their biological sex cannot be entirely separated from their gender.
 
I've never seen anyone treat Gender and Sex differently. seems like youre explaining personality no?
 
Mobile Tsk said:
Even if we accept your definition of gender as entirely precise, sex and gender are still highly correlated. Most people are cisgender and most people conform, even if loosely, to ascribed gendered behaviors. The link between the two (not for millenia, but rather for all of human existence) is innate; even for individuals who are transgender their biological sex cannot be entirely separated from their gender.
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But is this conformity due to being biologically compelled to do so, or because it's just been that way in society for an extremely long time?

I just kinda don't see the point in attaching traits and behavoirs and expectations to people's sex in this day and age.
 
Nuclear Chicken said:
Do I think that people are too nitpicky? Yes. Do I think people are too sensitive? Yea. But gender on a psychological level cannot be generalized into two simple options.... That's absurd
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On the topic of people being sensitive and nitpicky, it's good to remember that one's experiences and interactions are not going to be representative of all people. A lot people seem to act as if all trans and genderfluid people exist solely on tumblr and are 15 years old so they dismiss the idea because their most (in)direct interactions are with young people (who can't really know anything*) on the internet (where everyone just makes stuff up for fun and/or complains about unimportant things*). If they interacted with people in real life they might have a different experience and that might change their views because they would see that different expressions of gender exist in lots of people with varying degrees of sensitivity, but also it would mean they could see perhaps why people act and react the way they do and why one person's "oversensitive" is another's perfectly reasonable reaction.

*sarcasm
 
Yes, because gender =/= sex. What more is there to explain? Non-binary is legitimate, and if people feel a certain gender, then let people identify as they feel. Tumblr didn't "invent" genders, so don't listen to it.

Also, I'm not a ~special Tumblr snowflake~ or an ~~~~SJW~~~~~, I actually struggle w/gender issues and am working on my gender identity irl.
 
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Someone explain the bathroom argument then because im even more confused after this thread.
 
Oddball_ said:
Someone explain the bathroom argument then because im even more confused after this thread.
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What bathroom argument? You mean the trans one?

Trans is where you feel you're biological sex is wrong so you have it amended. From that point on you live physically as a Man or Woman and the argument is you should be able to use the toilets assigned to your reassigned physical sex.

It has nothing to do with gender pronouns, which are psychological, not physical.
 
Euphonium said:
Yes, because gender =/= sex. What more is there to explain? Non-binary is legitimate, and if people feel a certain gender, then let people identify as they feel. Tumblr didn't "invent" genders, so don't listen to it.

Also, I'm not a ~special Tumblr snowflake~ or an ~~~~SJW~~~~~, I actually struggle w/gender issues and am working on my gender identity irl.
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We've established that gender and sex are not the same thing. That's not an argument either for or against the legitimacy of non-binary gender.

I'm perfectly willing to accept non-binary genders because honestly I don't care either way, but if you want to say 100% that non-binary identification is legitimate you need to give more evidence to support your argument.
 
No not trans bathroom argument, it was a gender (not the physical obvious one) based thing.
 
im also confused, it would be best if it wasnt me who explained. Somebody confirm im not crazy tho
 
Probably only two, but I'm nowhere near educated enough to speak on the subject.
 
Gender is pretty clearly on a wide spectrum.
Seeing as nonbinary people and entire cultures have existed centuries before the internet exist, reducing nonbinary identities to "something tumblr invented" is not only factually wrong but also pretty erasive and rude.
I am a nonbinary person. Pretty fluid, to be specific. I don't care if people "understand" our identities, but I do expect them to a civil, nice human being and not reduce us to some troll post on tumblr.
 
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