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NM to Become First State to Require Students Apply to College

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  • Under a new bill making its way through New Mexico's state legislature, students in the state would be required to apply to college or commit to some post-graduation plan in order to graduate from high school.

    In addition to applying to college, students may enlist in the military, or enroll in an internship or apprenticeship. The students would have to file their plan with the principal and get approval from school guidance counselors and their parents.

    If approved, the requirement would go into effect for students entering 11th grade starting in the 2018-2019 school year.

    "Requiring students to do that would be unique in the nation; no other state in the nation has done that," Jennifer Zinth told CNN. Zinth is the director of high school and STEM for the Education Commission of the States, an education policy think tank in Colorado.

    House GOP floor leader Nate Gentry of Albuquerque said House Bill 23 would most likely lead to an increase in students pursuing education following high school graduation. At 71 percent, the state has the second-worst high school graduation rate in the country, according to the U.S. Department of Education, the Albuquerque Journal reported.

    Both Zinth and Gentry, however, acknowledge the potential financial burden the requirement could have on students, as some colleges charge an application fee (for example, the University of New Mexico charges a $25 application fee).

    In an effort to combat this issue, Gentry, who is sponsoring the bill, would like to address the possibility of waiving the fees for in-state institutions.
    I honestly don't support this at all, students shouldn't be forced to apply for college just to graduate high school. Not all students wants to go to college or have the means to pay for college. To me that shows blatant disrespect telling students to do this against their will.

    What are your thoughts on this matter? And should other states follow suit?
     

    Exothermic

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  • Yeah, I don't think it's a good idea since college might not be for everyone and there are a great deal of people who wish to pursue non-academic endeavors at a professional level. While I understand that such a bill has good intentions, it's going to be really difficult to execute such a plan in practice. High school and college are separate entities, and to require college registration in order to graduate from high school just makes the situation unnecessarily complex. There simply isn't a good enough benefit to outweigh the disadvantages of such a proposal.
     
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    Nah

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    I have to question their motives for coming up with this (mentioning how New Mexico has the 2nd lowest graduation rate in the country, "it's unique", etc), but it doesn't sound all bad to me. A high school diploma means jack shit in this day and age, so getting people have even a shred of a plan for what they're gonna do after high school is a good thing. It gives other options besides applying to a college too. Pretty sure that even if you apply to a college and even if they accept you, you don't necessarily have to go to it.
     
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    It arbitrarily puts a large amount of financial and mental stress on graduating students and is pretty much just a stop-gap rather than actually addressing the reasons New Mexico has a comparatively uneducated workforce
     

    mew_nani

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  • This sounds like a petty stereotypically politician idea. "Our workforce is under educated, what do we do about it that fixes the problem while simultaneously making us look good to our constituents?" "Lets force all the students to attend college or join the military after they graduate!" "Great idea, I see nothing potentially bad about this at all and the colleges give us more donations! And we'll look like we support the military too!" It's like Marie Antoinette telling the starving French people to eat cake when they can't get any bread, except at least Antoinette had the excuse that she didn't know how thing worked outside of the palace. Apparently they haven't gotten in their thick skulls that not all graduates are as rich as they are and thus can't afford to or might not wish to attend college or join the military after they graduate. Wanna just get a job after you get out of school and take a break? Well too bad!

    If they wanted to increase the education level of their workforce couldn't they do something more sensical, like making it easier for people to attend college or get a GED, or up the number of scholarships, or maybe have government programs helping low income graduates get classes and job experience like our Path 2 Promise program here in Kentucky? Or maybe raise awareness for apprenticeships and make it easier to get one, because not nearly enough of a spotlight is given to those.
     
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    Somewhere_

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  • I like the idea of trying to educate people, but forcing them is the wrong idea. College is becoming increasingly expensive and many people arent prepared for the costs, and for them, it may be better to wait (or not go). In addition, with more and more people applying to college, prices will increase, making the issue worse. Does trade school at least qualify? I think it's generally recommended by economists that if you aren't going to go to college, trade school is a good option so you at least have a skill set that allows you to get entry-level jobs and perhaps even run business.

    How about we actually improve high school education so students have the skills necessary to enter the workforce and a high school diploma actually means something to potential employers?
     
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    Kai

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  • Doesn't seem to bad since a student could apply to a college in order to graduate then not follow up if they are accepted. Those who want to go to college could use this law as leverage since forcing them to go, even if they were planning on going, without a way to reduce their financial burden would make the lawmakers look bad.
     
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  • Did any of yall even read the article? All the student needs is a post-graduation plan worth committing to. It could be college, it could be the military, or an internship or an apprenticeship, but the bottom line is that there needs to be a plan that's vetted by the student, guidance counsellor, and principal.

    I think it's a great idea. What you're doing is encouraging the student to reach out to the mentors in their lives about post-graduation plans, and you're getting the community involved in the future of their, well, future.

    Honestly, half the battle in achieving a future is planning for the future. I'm sure all of us would have accomplished more in our lives with more and earlier planning. For a kid who is on the verge of dropping out, having a plan of what to do with their life might make the difference in giving them the motivation and purpose to stay in school.
     
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  • Did any of yall even read the article? All the student needs is a post-graduation plan worth committing to. It could be college, it could be the military, or an internship or an apprenticeship, but the bottom line is that there needs to be a plan that's vetted by the student, guidance counsellor, and principal.

    I think it's a great idea. What you're doing is encouraging the student to reach out to the mentors in their lives about post-graduation plans, and you're getting the community involved in the future of their, well, future.

    Honestly, half the battle in achieving a future is planning for the future. I'm sure all of us would have accomplished more in our lives with more and earlier planning. For a kid who is on the verge of dropping out, having a plan of what to do with their life might make the difference in giving them the motivation and purpose to stay in school.
    When you are forced to commit which this law would require, please tell me how this is going to encourage people to graduate?
     

    Vragon

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    When you are forced to commit which this law would require, please tell me how this is going to encourage people to graduate?

    I dunno, why would anyone want to graduate high school if they didn't want to get some education or feel like they had to? I think something to remember is that isn't a matter of encouragement. I mean, considering what the article says about them having the second worst high-school graduation rates, then honestly it'd make sense to do some extra measures.

    The matter isn't just about finishing high-school but also if you have a plan afterwards. Something that I'm sure, you won't have to just pull out of the blue or think about it alone. It's a way to start on options and get students to think about how to do a future and what to do so they won't spend 5 years doing fast food work, because they're unsure about what they can do or where to go do to lack of information or knowledge of schools.

    Now you can say, "But it shouldn't be a requirement." And I'd agree with you, if it wasn't the second worst high-school graduation rate in the country. This is obviously some kind of measure they are taking and frankly from what you've supplied Paige, I can't really blame them. Look, I get the word "requirement" raises a flag and I understand that, but this ultimately depends on your side of the question, "Should someone have to do something that they need to even if they don't want to."

    And to that question you could say, "Well different problems exist so in some cases you can and some you can't". Okay, so
    1) The drop out rate is harmful to the students as well as the state and unless some action is taken, it will remain that way.
    2) If the students haven't shown signs of doing that then there needs to be something put in order. This isn't just about students not thinking ahead, but poor families might not have the ability to. This is where the school can start giving information and allow schools to come and give talks at their place for upcoming graduates.
    3) You'd say that it wouldn't be allowed unless the person was about to hurt themselves. Okay, so how is not preparing for your future or having a plan detrimental to that. If you're going to finish something with no clue on what to do next, then why are you graduating anyways (at least right now)? The point is, even if you do go to college, even if you go to the military, even if you get a good paying job without a college diploma there's a level of planning involved and frankly a state wanting to make this a requirement is better than just allowing students to either waste their potential or be left in the dark.

    Now I will add that in order for this to be a good thing, the state will have to push out information and knowledge of several schools, opportunities, etc. It'd be frankly unfair to just put this law into action and not do anything else. The schools need to help show these outlets and opportunities, so the students will have an idea of a future for themselves. If the government, or at least the schools don't do any form of that, then this law would be unfair and completely backtracking to what their intended purpose is. If you're going to make someone build something, at least give them the tools they need and resources to make their plan work.

    Also, can you give a link to the article. That'd be a big help for me finding it and others as well.
     
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  • When you are forced to commit which this law would require, please tell me how this is going to encourage people to graduate?

    Life is commitment. Get kids into a habit of making commitments and they'll get better at forming and making them. A lot of life is built from commitments made beforehands: take relationships, for example. A relationship gets serious from the buildup of escalating commitments. Getting good at any skill, whether it be for a job or a hobby, takes commitment.

    Just the act of forming a commitment makes you more likely to get something done. I can't count the number of times I've committed to hanging out with friends when I didn't really feel like it and went out because of that commitment - if I hadn't given my word, I definitely wouldn't have gone out. If you add actual planning and forethought thought to a commitment, then that's increasing your ability to achieve that even more.

    Life can change all of these plans, but it's not like these students are forced to follow their plan by the letter. The value of the plan is in the exercise of making it and being able to envision a vision for themselves and a path to reaching it.
     
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  • I dunno, can a kid of 17ish really decide what they want to do for the rest of their life? Wouldn't that add more stress?
     

    Vragon

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    I dunno, can a kid of 17ish really decide what they want to do for the rest of their life? Wouldn't that add more stress?

    It's better than not doing anything about it. Plus, I did say that it wouldn't a good idea if they didn't provide options or information for a possible path they could take. It's not like a 17ish person is just expected to come with this, it's just a requirement before they graduate. And even then it's more of a plan, which as Kanzler stated before, " it's not like these students are forced to follow their plan by the letter." If anything, I see this as a preparation step that schools could implement in creative and motivating ways.

    Now for decisions of the rest of their life. I have to say that no one expects the future to go exactly as they plan and those that do are set up for falling eventually. However, getting a plan together helps the student gain experience in thinking about their future as they grow into young adults. Also, might I remind that this is a state with the second worst high-school graduation rate. I would rather the situation be a recommendation rather than necessarily a requirement, however given the state's circumstances I can't really blame them for this course of action.

    Now as for the stress aspect, I could bring up examples of what a lack of a plan would do to a kid out of highschool, but I think a good example of the concept in general is life in general. Stress isn't nice and something I struggle with a lot, however peeps (I being one) need to understand there's a time to relieve stress and a time to just let it have it. I'm not saying not to vent or take a break (cause let's face it bottled soda rage isn't a viable drink option with good aftertaste), but it's important to be able to handle pressure such as these. Forming plans and making goals, I mean, call me old fashioned, but I honestly see discipline as a need in a student's life. Yes, you don't need it to win (There are several peeps in my classes that can Ace a test without a lick of studying, unlike me Mr. sir take up more time cause hell I can't be assured with my answer or writing hyah heee), but

    1) Not everyone is one of those students
    2) It's a practice that is used outside of schools and is in daily life.

    So my overall summation of this is. I would expect a 17ish year old to get stressed over something like this, but wouldn't there be peeps to help them? Like teachers, counselors, their freakin parents (if they care) and even their friends? It's not like the student would be going in it alone and if that is the case and the schools don't show these offers or options then it would be a terrible situation to put the student in.
     
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    ShinyUmbreon189

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  • I don't agree with being forced to do something against my will, unless it's a job which I'm getting paid for so that's different. We're forced against our will to pay taxes and follow many other rules and regulations, and now NM wants to force it's citizens to go to college? Why?
    Politicians always be thinking everybody has money trees growing in their back yards. Lots can barely afford to make ends meet, now they will be going in more debt than they possibly already are and cause more unneeded stress. Not everybody has the 2-10k for a semester of school, and there's MANY semesters for a degree. Sure community colleges are a lot cheaper but lots of students would be paying for GEN ED most of their first semester anyways. Instead of forcing people to go to school. How about they focus on the unemployment? Get more people to work than forcing to pay for schooling when most clearly can't afford it. But the government wants us to be dependent on them.
    Most can't go to school because of the expense as is. Not everybody wants to be 30+k in debt. I'm already 10k in debt from medical bills. Damn sure don't want 50k in debt. America's system is set to make us fail. Only the rich and wealthy can afford college without going into debt. That's a major problem. Debt = stress and nobody needs more of that.
     
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    S-MAN

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  • I agree with the sentiments on the issues of paying for college. They can "encourage" students to look at their options yet not provide any viable means to afford/pay it? What's the point in that? I agree students need to be encouraged to look at their options, but how is this going to make things better? Slightly higher awareness? Are they going to be honest with the students and tell them "yeah college is overpriced don't be an idiot" or are they going to unrealistically recommend/brainwash them into thinking "YOU CAN DOOO IT!" :t054: Sounds like a trap or broken promise. Any of you think the internet courses are out of the question like udemy or Khan academy as "considerations" by the students?

    I wonder if seniors are even aware of the issues many of us ended up with collecting debts that are unforeseen compared to the last 2 decades. Sounds like a desperate attempt on making more students enroll into a system that is very quickly dying. Either they provide truly fair opportunities for everyone or they can just go ahead and reap the anarchy that is likely to ensue due to their negligence as leaders. We may have better options at this point in some other nation..

    This lovely guy sums up college pretty well: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8utmmWoBSBY
     

    ShinyUmbreon189

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  • I'm gonna add something.. College is dying because it's so expensive to attend it, and most fields either have no jobs, limited jobs, or you're settling for 12-14 as an hourly wage for any opportunity. That's only 20-30k a year roughly. With all other bills, they'll be paying their college debt the rest of their lives. Might as well become a manager at a restauarant and make 15 an hour debt free.
    Back then, most jobs didn't need schooling. You just needed an aptitude for the job and they trained on the spot, and schooling was an option for higher level jobs if you so choosed. Now they require you to spend thousands for even a trade or certificate. I'm sorry, but you shouldn't have to go to school to fix a car. I replaced a clutch in my Honda Civic without a lift or schooling. There's MANY people who are FAR more qualified for jobs that have no schooling vs the ones that have schooling. Or IT tech. Many people qualified without schooling. Electrician, AC/VAC, machine operator, forklift operator, etc. Shouldn't need schooling. Can easily be trained.
     

    Arsenic

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  • Lol did I see 10k a semester as the high-end of college pricing? State school in my state is 25k a semester! THATS 50k A YEAR! Times that by 2 or 4, even 8 (Idk if professorates are offered here in the states, but I think that's 10 years?)

    All this is, is the government forcing people into debt. It will help NOONE. Those who were already going to college see no benefit, those who weren't now have to pay.

    Obviously New Mexico needs to learn a thing or two about what American Freedom is!

    And did I read that this is supposed to help an ailing highschool graduation rate? Because the best way to help get more people to graduate is certainly to add more requirements.



    Heres an idea. If you want more people in college, why don't you add a state program on top of FiAid to help people actually be able to afford school. That's what THE GOVERNMENT IS FUCKING HERE FOR, after all. To help it's citizens.
     

    ShinyUmbreon189

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  • Lol did I see 10k a semester as the high-end of college pricing? State school in my state is 25k a semester! THATS 50k A YEAR! Times that by 2 or 4, even 8 (Idk if professorates are offered here in the states, but I think that's 10 years?)

    That was my bad, I was using 10k as the average rate of college semesters. You're speaking of private schools, not public. Only the rich and wealthy go to these schools, or einsten smart people that got scholorships. Most can't afford public universites as is. Just thought I'd clear this up lol.

    All this is, is the government forcing people into debt. It will help NOONE. Those who were already going to college see no benefit, those who weren't now have to pay.

    They basically already are forcing us into debt with the way their corrupt system is set up. It only benefits the rich and wealthy, and of course themselves. Wouldn't be surprised if getting New Mexico to do this and spread it throughout the US is one of their tyrannical agendas.

    Heres an idea. If you want more people in college, why don't you add a state program on top of FiAid to help people actually be able to afford school. That's what THE GOVERNMENT IS ****ING HERE FOR, after all. To help it's citizens.

    They would raise the taxes to pay for this, that's the problem. Hell, they'd tax us for the air we breathe if they could. Besides, it's never been about what's best for society, it's whats best for THEM. They could give a damn about us unless you're a millionare which then you get "special treatments" for everything. The rest of us are shit out of luck. Trying to survive in a broken system meant to make us fail.
     

    Vragon

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    https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2018/01/31/new-mexico-high-school-college-plans-proposal/1085156001/
    Okay since no one else would, I decided to put the article here from the report by USA today. It shouldn't be too hard to find other sites to delve into from here so feel free to treat with scrutiny.

    Now I've delved into this bill a little and while I am not inherently against the notion of having a plan or helping students have a plan after college and that being the requirement (the flexibility and exceptions could be made if they are deemed legit), however I can say that some of what I'm noticing isn't beneficial.

    I brought up earlier that if the government of NM doesn't give the tools for it as well as suitable options this wouldn't go very well and yeah, apparently some of their methods I don't agree with. I'm for peeps having a plan and possibly that push they need to get one done, but at the same time they're failing in the execution from what I'm seeing.

    Overall, this isn't a bill I disagree with conceptually if you give the options and plausibility as well as understanding for cases that can be deemed as exceptions. I mean, the whole their universities related is obviously Bull**** money grabbing, but it does bother me that these things are being handled poorly.

    One last thing, I'm all for peeps not being forced into picking a college, "I'm talking about options/plans/experience and all that stuff. It's important to make sure these discussion and things are set in motion"
     

    Arsenic

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  • You're speaking of private schools, not public.


    I foshizzle isntizzle. 18k for tuition n books n stuff. 10k for room n board cause UNH is a stay-in school. State owned so it's not private.

    If you come from out of the area though... Double the price.
     
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