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Pokemon Birthsigns

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    Can that Wonder Guard ??? type Arceus be beaten using a Mold Breaker user? How about a Gastro Acid user?

    Yes, there are many niche strategies to beat it. I designed it to be overpowered, but it isn't completely invincible. Anything that would normally get around Wonder Guard will work. The idea with Omega is that you need to build a very specialized party to defeat it, since it's immune to normal brute force. Another weakness Omega has is that despite having super powerful moves, almost all of them have very low PP. So finding ways to abuse immunities to PP stall with things like Pressure and Spite will have it KO'ing itself eventually.
     
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    Yeah if you're trying to use the newest zodiac scripts on old save data, you're gonna have headaches. I changed how everything works a few updates ago that makes all the mechanics run 100x more efficiently by simply relying on global metadata and initializing certain things from the start so I didn't have to keep finding roundabout ways to call things and make things work. The Trainer sign for example is zero in your game because you're playing on old save data where the Trainer sign wasn't initialized from the beginning (which is how it works now). It wouldn't be possible for the Trainer sign to be zero through normal means, since by default the sign is initialized at the beginning to be equal to the zodiac global metadata of that current month (and can then be changed from there). So the only way it could be zero or nil is if you literally manually coded it to be as such. Or, in this case, have a save file where that global data it's trying to call on isn't there.

    I know it's probably a huge hassle for people like you who have existing projects that can't afford to start new saves for whatever reason. But I try to design things based around what would be easiest for people to install who are new to this and are just starting off. It gets too confusing when you try to accommodate everyone's custom projects at various stages of completion.

    no thats fully understandable, i managed to get around the celestial and actual what sign is each month by setting them manually, so if i did the same somehow for the trainer one? couldnt see the actual metadata for the trainer sign from what it uses in the trainer card however.
     
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    no thats fully understandable, i managed to get around the celestial and actual what sign is each month by setting them manually, so if i did the same somehow for the trainer one? couldnt see the actual metadata for the trainer sign from what it uses in the trainer card however.

    The trainer sign isnt its own metadata exactly. It just looks at the zodiac metadata and when the trainer is first initialized it sets the trainer sign as equal to whatever the current month's zodiac metadata is. Basically every birthsign related thing calls on the zodiac metadata.
     
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  • I love this system but why are some birthsigns so much more useful and powerful than others? Will there be a way to change a Pokemon's birthsign to a desired one like how many hacks/fangames add ways to change a Pokemon's nature?
     
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    I love this system but why are some birthsigns so much more useful and powerful than others? Will there be a way to change a Pokemon's birthsign to a desired one like how many hacks/fangames add ways to change a Pokemon's nature?

    I'm gonna answer this in probably way more detail than necessary, but here are my thoughts on the design philosophy with the signs.

    I realize some signs have way more of an impact on gameplay than others. This is mostly just because I started on this project years ago, so I've just naturally gotten better at coding over time, and became more ambitious with the kinds of ideas I could implement. The original 12 signs for example were very basic and somewhat lackluster. I put effort into making them feel more interesting as I've updated things, without outright completely changing the themes and ideas behind them.

    I've tried balancing this problem by making the signs that DO have strong effects much harder to use consistently. For example, the effect for 'The Timelord' (instantly evolve a Pokemon) requires 1 Stardust or Star Piece from your inventory per use, AND comes with a 10,000 step cooldown per use. So under normal gameplay it can't be spammed consecutively, and is actually completely unusable until you find some Stardust/Star Pieces (which are typically somewhat rare). So if your starter comes with this sign, for example, you can't just spam the Timeskip skill and get its final form before you even leave the first town. Unless you just give the player a bunch of Stardust at the start of the game for some reason, at which point that's kinda on you.

    Compare this to a much less flashy sign, like 'The Companion' (boosts happiness levels). The effects of this sign are always active and don't require anything to activate or maintain. So between the two signs, if you're trying to quickly evolve something that is happiness-based (like Riolu to Lucario) for example, the sign of 'The Companion' is actually far more reliable than 'The Timelord' would be. Because the instant happiness boost will most likely cause Riolu to evolve already by the time you happen to stumble upon some Stardust, and its effect costs you nothing. This is the sort of mentality I have when balancing sign effects. Some are really good, but aren't consistent. Others aren't super useful, but are very reliable for those niche circumstances where they are. Then you have a few wild cards thrown in that have a potentially huge impact, but it may not always be worth the associated cost (The Eternal, The Fool, The Cultist, etc).

    A second way I've tried to balance things are through Zodiac Powers. Signs that have great effects outside of battle tend to have more situational effects in battle with their Zodiac Powers. Again, using 'The Timelord' as an example - its Zodiac Power allows it to borrow the attributes of its evolved form (if it can evolve), or its pre-evolved form (if its fully evolved). This means its great (if not busted) in the early-game, but becomes actually a debuff in the late game for most Pokemon. Compare this to 'The Companion' Zodiac Power which not only boosts your partner's damage by 50%, but also negates the opponent's Protect that turn, which is literally always useful in a double battle and comes with no downsides at all.

    Anyway, as far as changing signs go, there already exists plenty of ways to do this, most of which is handled by the Events script. You can use Birthstone events to give your Pokemon a blessing, which changes their sign to that particular event's sign. You can also use another event to spawn Celestial Bosses, who, when captured, can manually bless any other party member with the sign they represent. Pokemon with 'The Eternal' sign can also change their sign to whatever the current month's sign is. There isn't a quick and easy method to change signs though, but that's by design. It SHOULD be difficult to change a Pokemon's sign, because of how potentially useful they are. I don't want people to get a Pokemon with a sign like "The Beacon" and go ew lets change that to something else. I want them to get it and and then be like ok thats useless but then stumble upon a cave they don't want to give up a moveslot for Flash for and go "oh yeahhh, I can just use that birthsign I forgot about". Some signs are just designed in that way where they're kind of forgettable until you're in that one specific situation where they're a lifesaver, and I feel like being able to just freely change signs on a whim greatly reduces that impact.

    Also it doesn't really make sense from a lore perspective to be able to change the sign you were born under. Thats why I implemented the blessing system so that it can only be done once to change a Pokemon's sign, and after that they can no longer have their sign changed. It's supposed to be a meaningful decision that you have to think about. Of course, however, there's nothing stopping you from just manually coding in a method of changing signs freely. I left that door open in case people want to do that, but I don't want to include an option for that by default. You can easily just adapt the Debug tools i've included that change signs to implement a sign changing system of your own.
     
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    The trainer sign isnt its own metadata exactly. It just looks at the zodiac metadata and when the trainer is first initialized it sets the trainer sign as equal to whatever the current month's zodiac metadata is. Basically every birthsign related thing calls on the zodiac metadata.

    managed to work around it using the old way it did it for the trainer card with checking the start time month, then for the journal, did the same but made the select do the month-1 since the start month starts at 1 not 0 while the new method for checking starts at 0.

    seems thats all worked around now, still no luck with Zodiac Powers, what also checks if you can use see the button/press it? i have the switch on. thanks for the help so far, been rather quick to reply and help even if its been me using an old version.
     
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    managed to work around it using the old way it did it for the trainer card with checking the start time month, then for the journal, did the same but made the select do the month-1 since the start month starts at 1 not 0 while the new method for checking starts at 0.

    seems thats all worked around now, still no luck with Zodiac Powers, what also checks if you can use see the button/press it? i have the switch on. thanks for the help so far, been rather quick to reply and help even if its been me using an old version.

    Zodiac Powers are checked in a complicated way, it just happens to work so I never bothered to mess with it and simplify. It mainly checks if the "hasZodiacPower?" method returns true, which itself checks if the "hasSignAndStone?" method returns true, which itself checks if the Pokemon has the right combination of item and sign (which is checked by all of the various "hasJanBirthsign?" methods for each month). If all of that returns true, then the button SHOULD appear. However, the actual Zodiac Power effects themselves are checked a different way, so it's possible for a button to show up but no effect actually happen if the button check returns true, but the effect check doesn't.
     
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    Zodiac Powers are checked in a complicated way, it just happens to work so I never bothered to mess with it and simplify. It mainly checks if the "hasZodiacPower?" method returns true, which itself checks if the "hasSignAndStone?" method returns true, which itself checks if the Pokemon has the right combination of item and sign (which is checked by all of the various "hasJanBirthsign?" methods for each month). If all of that returns true, then the button SHOULD appear. However, the actual Zodiac Power effects themselves are checked a different way, so it's possible for a button to show up but no effect actually happen if the button check returns true, but the effect check doesn't.

    may have been how you re-did it or me miss adding stuff, but removing the "@zodiacPower" in the zodiac power script, since it was never defined, AND getting "pbUseZodiacPower" to be triggered, that was also undefined, atleast for my version, it worked and activated. also the button issue was me misreading, i added a ZODIAC_SWITCH = in settings when its in the zodiacpower script, and never updated it to the switch i wanted it to be. all works now, just gotta use a common event to fix other existing saves and its updated!

    edit; i realise i never added the birthsign_battle only the one for EBS, my dumb fault.
     
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  • Thank you for making this, it's an excellent system. This is really creative, please don't read the following balance comment as an insult:

    Some birthsigns stop giving any major benefits after the Pokemon is fully evolved/max level/happy enough/and so on.

    If people want to use this, can they make their own balance changes and custom signs?
     
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    Thank you for making this, it's an excellent system. This is really creative, please don't read the following balance comment as an insult:

    Some birthsigns stop giving any major benefits after the Pokemon is fully evolved/max level/happy enough/and so on.

    If people want to use this, can they make their own balance changes and custom signs?

    It's sort of by design that many of the signs are only situationally useful. That's why I made so many of them beyond the original 12, and allow for custom zodiac builds, so that you can pick the 12 that suits your tastes and omit the ones you find less interesting. The original intent and idea behind the birthsign mechanic was that these would be equivalent to perks found in other RPG's like Elder Scrolls or something, where they give you a cool little extra bonus early on in the game that'll help you along your adventure, but by endgame they aren't something that you need to min/max or rely upon. That's why signs like 'The Voyager' and 'The Phoenix' exist; they're purposely designed to be situationally useful early on in the adventure where you're broke or lack quick travel, and aren't meant to be a key part of the Pokemon's kit by end game. Other signs, however, ARE designed with endgame content in mind, so you can make a zodiac out of just those signs if that's what appeals to you. I really tried to make signs for as many different play styles and game design styles as possible. Some signs are built around adventuring, others around raising Pokemon, and others around competition.

    Again, I tried balancing this by introducing Zodiac Powers. So even if a Pokemon has a birthsign that isn't very useful to them outside of battle, they can still benefit from them in combat by utilizing their respective Zodiac Powers. Something like 'The Maiden' becomes pretty irrelevant by end game, but its Zodiac Power, "Beauty Queen" boosts both its stats AND guarantees either confusion or attraction on all foes, with no drawbacks. So even if it's useless outside of combat, its not just completely dead weight altogether.
     
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    That is excellent design! What if the The Phoenix birthers could be revived after death mid-battle once per battle?

    I try to avoid battle-related effects for birthsigns (outside of Zodiac Powers, of course). Because the second you introduce an effect that has battle relevance, it makes it valuable as a combat tool, which then means it's something you want all of your Pokemon to have. Like why wouldn't you want ALL of your Pokemon to have an auto-revive in combat if that was an option? Now the other signs are suddenly less valuable. I try to keep any battle effects exclusive to Zodiac Powers because of this.

    You'll notice that almost none of the signs have battle effects. That was done on purpose. The closest one is probably 'The Assassin', which only works on wild Pokemon, and isn't super consistent. Any other battle-related effects have to do with finding items, extra money, extra exp, etc. Cool little bonuses that are nice to have, but don't add anything crucial to the Pokemon's combat performance. If they did, then they'd move away from being fun little perks and into the realm of battle gimmicks. I try to keep the birthsign effects more on the "fun, but not essential" side of things. The idea is that each Pokemon you catch or hatch can have an unexpected or quirky bonus that adds to their surprise factor. I purposely try to stay away from situations where you'd want specific signs to create an optimized build.

    When it comes to Zodiac Powers though, it's a different story. Those were definitely designed specifically for people who want to design a game that focuses on using birthsigns for their combat potential. That's why I offer it as an add-on, and not a core part of the script. Because they do, in some sense, go against the original design philosophy I had with birthsigns ("fun, but not essential"). But I like being able to offer that as an option if someone is inspired to use it in an interesting way. Plus they're fun to make. lol

    SO to answer your question in a long-winded way, no, I probably wouldn't want to add an auto-revive to 'The Phoenix'. As a Zodiac Power though, sure. But I feel like that would be too strong of an effect for trainer battles, and making it only work in wild battles would make that Zodiac Power really lame when compared to the others which don't have that limitation. That's why I settled on making its Zodiac Power a full-heal effect instead.
     
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  • I had an idea.

    What if a part of the forum is made where game developers, scripters, hackers, etc can talk about the design philosophy and design process behind their great ideas?

    sort of like the Designing For youtube series, or Game Maker's Tool Kit, or Magikura's videos on fighting game animation/street fighter characters/why mortal kombat sucks.

    Fans can also ask questions to these developers/artists/whatever in these threads.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oExVN9L21Wc&t=1s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_KVEjhT4wQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbNWb-vmlB4
     
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    I had an idea.

    What if a part of the forum is made where game developers, scripters, hackers, etc can talk about the design philosophy and design process behind their great ideas?

    sort of like the Designing For youtube series, or Game Maker's Tool Kit, or Magikura's videos on fighting game animation/street fighter characters/why mortal kombat sucks.

    Fans can also ask questions to these developers/artists/whatever in these threads.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oExVN9L21Wc&t=1s
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_KVEjhT4wQ
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbNWb-vmlB4

    Hey, we've got a dedicated section for feedback, support and suggestions where you can post your idea: https://www.pokecommunity.com/forumdisplay.php?fn=support
     
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    Minor Update 8/7/20: Zodiac Power Updates and Minor Bug Fixes
    This is a very small update to fix one or two things and to further the compatibility between Zodiac Powers and Dynamax mechanics. No conflicts should arise if you aren't using Dynamax.

    Change Log:
    Spoiler:
     
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    (Repost)It gave me an error saying unidentified method error on line 208 the void birth sign
     
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    Agrr I don't know how to use this website so you might be getting spam, but I need help with the birthsigns, it says undefined method or something close to that. Basically its not allowing to test the game so I can create a new game.
     
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    Agrr I don't know how to use this website so you might be getting spam, but I need help with the birthsigns, it says undefined method or something close to that. Basically its not allowing to test the game so I can create a new game.

    Try deleting your save data in the game's folder and see if you can open the game that way. Make sure the birthsigns scripts are placed below all other scripts that affect battle, pokemon, or trainers. Directly above all of the Debug scripts is a good spot, if youre installing in a fresh copy of Essentials v17.2. If you have custom script edits, make sure there arent any conflicts.
     
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