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XY customization is bae, man I LOVE gen 6
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Decisions that made no sense.
- Thread starter Latios_Enjoyer
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I'm sure it'll be a thing in Scarlet/Violet. They didn't have it in ORAS yeah, and it was rather pitiful in BDSP, but it's been in every other main series game since XY so I think it's a fairly safe bet that it's a feature that's here to stay for the most part.
Duck
🦆 quack quack
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Here's another one:
Gender locking hair styles and outfits.
Gender locking the outfits is silly but it's easier to understand from a Wattsonian perspective since there are concrete sizing differences and it's plausible that some of the more girly stuff just wouldn't be available to fit a more masculine frame (even though it's 2022 year of our lord, just let the character wear whatever).
Gender locking hair styles just reeks of "Only girls have long hair".
Gender locking hair styles and outfits.
Gender locking the outfits is silly but it's easier to understand from a Wattsonian perspective since there are concrete sizing differences and it's plausible that some of the more girly stuff just wouldn't be available to fit a more masculine frame (even though it's 2022 year of our lord, just let the character wear whatever).
Gender locking hair styles just reeks of "Only girls have long hair".
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Agreeing with Shooting Star. It was silly to shut down the game corner altogether. You can always keep the games and prizes, and lose the slot machines and gambling references, and cool examples of how to do this were shared. I would be grateful to just have Voltorb flip back again, but there are a lot of different ways to go. Maybe a Pokemon arcade? I would fancy inserting coins into a crane game machine, and using the claw to try to grab rare Pokemon dolls for your secret base.
Sometimes Game Freak can be explained by laziness, but since they went through all the trouble of expanding Mauvile into a new Lumiose City, it doesn't appear that they were just trying to cut corners in this instance. That's what makes the choice to drop the Game Corner not make sense. If they are going to spend time and effort adding random stuff like cafes and apartment complexes that nobody had asked for, why not just direct some of that energy into a variation on something from the original games?
Removing customisation from Oras was also really bad, as several folks have already mentioned. I have previously heard excuses like, "Sam, they didn't have customisation back RSE, so they took it out to make it more like the originals, otherwise fans of the old games wouldn't like the remakes." I think that doesn't make any sense though. They didn't have physical and special split, hidden abilities, mega evolutions in RSE either, and that returned to Oras. We don't drop the improvements to the mechanics the generation makes. That's kinda the whole point of having a remake, to allow players to re-experience the region with new technology. I have never actually heard anyone argue that they would have been mad if customisation returned, I have only heard dissatisfaction about it being taken away, but if there are people who really would be upset about customizing their trainer, then they don't have to use the customisation feature. They can just stay always looking like May/Brendan. It's optional. I don't see what would be wrong with giving players more options.
I think Palamon mentioned something worth thinking about. If customisations were in Oras, what would be the best place to incorporate it? Good question! There have been some suggestions I really like by Megan and Nah for places to put customisation shoos. I especially love the idea of the traveling salesman at the contest halls who sells, make up, wigs, outfits etc. The dressing room with Lysa could also have lots of outfits to wear in the wardrobe. She could also gift the player clothes sometimes, or Wallace. Another venue I just thought of to possibly obtain clothes from would be Lilycove since it has the department store with many floors, just like you can buy furniture, toys, poster, there could also be clothing sales. And yes, take the gender lock off of styles while we're at it.
I am on the same train with everyone who doesn't understand why Kris was replaced with Lyra in HGSS. If you wanted to do something to update her design with the times--that's cool, but it made no sense to remove the character entirely, and replace her with somebody we have never seen before, and didn't even bother to name her after the game titles to keep the theme going. It's especially random since they leave Gold in the game, but not Kris.
A lot of decisions I can think of have already been named, but one I think hasn't been talked about yet is so few pokemon being allowed into Amity Square. I liked the idea of such a place in the Sinnoh region, but in practice it was useless. In the original Diamond and Pearl games only 7 Pokemon can get in before you obtain the national Dex, and only a couple more get included after that point. Platinum makes it a little better by allowing you to at bring your starter Pokemon in, so at least one of your pokemon should be accepted, but still the number of eligible Pokemon is tiny,
The requirement that it's just for cute little Pokemon doesn't seem fair. A pokemon's value shouldn't just be based on whether they look cute or not, that's not a good message to communicate to young players, that only those who look appealing are good enough. If you're going to make that stipulation anyway though, then they could better define what they consider "cute" and apply the standards consistently. Some Pokemon that are allowed like Clefairy and Pikachu, are commonly thought adorable but some others like Shroomish and Drifloon that got a pass are more unusual choices, that people may take issue with, especially when Pokemon like Eevee and starters aren't allowed in the original Diamon and Pearl games, even baby Pokemon can't enter. If a baby's not cute, then who is?
Edit: I forgot about the absence of fire pokemon in Diamond and Pearl. If you don't pick Chimchar in the originals, then there's only one fire Pokemon you can get in Sinnoh before beating the game, Ponyta. There's a free fire stone at the Ironworks, but there's no fire Pokemon around to evolve with it. Flint, the fire specialist at the Elite Four literally has only 2 fire pokemon. The rest of his team are non-fire types, including Steelix, a Pokemon weak to fire that actually sets up Sunny Day to strengthen fire attacks that will hurt it. This is nuts even for an npc.
Sometimes Game Freak can be explained by laziness, but since they went through all the trouble of expanding Mauvile into a new Lumiose City, it doesn't appear that they were just trying to cut corners in this instance. That's what makes the choice to drop the Game Corner not make sense. If they are going to spend time and effort adding random stuff like cafes and apartment complexes that nobody had asked for, why not just direct some of that energy into a variation on something from the original games?
Removing customisation from Oras was also really bad, as several folks have already mentioned. I have previously heard excuses like, "Sam, they didn't have customisation back RSE, so they took it out to make it more like the originals, otherwise fans of the old games wouldn't like the remakes." I think that doesn't make any sense though. They didn't have physical and special split, hidden abilities, mega evolutions in RSE either, and that returned to Oras. We don't drop the improvements to the mechanics the generation makes. That's kinda the whole point of having a remake, to allow players to re-experience the region with new technology. I have never actually heard anyone argue that they would have been mad if customisation returned, I have only heard dissatisfaction about it being taken away, but if there are people who really would be upset about customizing their trainer, then they don't have to use the customisation feature. They can just stay always looking like May/Brendan. It's optional. I don't see what would be wrong with giving players more options.
I think Palamon mentioned something worth thinking about. If customisations were in Oras, what would be the best place to incorporate it? Good question! There have been some suggestions I really like by Megan and Nah for places to put customisation shoos. I especially love the idea of the traveling salesman at the contest halls who sells, make up, wigs, outfits etc. The dressing room with Lysa could also have lots of outfits to wear in the wardrobe. She could also gift the player clothes sometimes, or Wallace. Another venue I just thought of to possibly obtain clothes from would be Lilycove since it has the department store with many floors, just like you can buy furniture, toys, poster, there could also be clothing sales. And yes, take the gender lock off of styles while we're at it.
I am on the same train with everyone who doesn't understand why Kris was replaced with Lyra in HGSS. If you wanted to do something to update her design with the times--that's cool, but it made no sense to remove the character entirely, and replace her with somebody we have never seen before, and didn't even bother to name her after the game titles to keep the theme going. It's especially random since they leave Gold in the game, but not Kris.
A lot of decisions I can think of have already been named, but one I think hasn't been talked about yet is so few pokemon being allowed into Amity Square. I liked the idea of such a place in the Sinnoh region, but in practice it was useless. In the original Diamond and Pearl games only 7 Pokemon can get in before you obtain the national Dex, and only a couple more get included after that point. Platinum makes it a little better by allowing you to at bring your starter Pokemon in, so at least one of your pokemon should be accepted, but still the number of eligible Pokemon is tiny,
The requirement that it's just for cute little Pokemon doesn't seem fair. A pokemon's value shouldn't just be based on whether they look cute or not, that's not a good message to communicate to young players, that only those who look appealing are good enough. If you're going to make that stipulation anyway though, then they could better define what they consider "cute" and apply the standards consistently. Some Pokemon that are allowed like Clefairy and Pikachu, are commonly thought adorable but some others like Shroomish and Drifloon that got a pass are more unusual choices, that people may take issue with, especially when Pokemon like Eevee and starters aren't allowed in the original Diamon and Pearl games, even baby Pokemon can't enter. If a baby's not cute, then who is?
Edit: I forgot about the absence of fire pokemon in Diamond and Pearl. If you don't pick Chimchar in the originals, then there's only one fire Pokemon you can get in Sinnoh before beating the game, Ponyta. There's a free fire stone at the Ironworks, but there's no fire Pokemon around to evolve with it. Flint, the fire specialist at the Elite Four literally has only 2 fire pokemon. The rest of his team are non-fire types, including Steelix, a Pokemon weak to fire that actually sets up Sunny Day to strengthen fire attacks that will hurt it. This is nuts even for an npc.
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Some for me:
-Not adding Johto Pokémon within the routes and dungeons in HGSS.
-Also not redoing gym leader teams in HGSS to give them more Johto Pokémon.
-Genderlocking starter Pokémon in the first two Mystery Dungeon games.
-Beldum having the catch rate of a legendary
-Not including Platinum fixes or Sylveon in BDSP
-Not adding Johto Pokémon within the routes and dungeons in HGSS.
-Also not redoing gym leader teams in HGSS to give them more Johto Pokémon.
-Genderlocking starter Pokémon in the first two Mystery Dungeon games.
-Beldum having the catch rate of a legendary
-Not including Platinum fixes or Sylveon in BDSP
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Adam Levine
[color=#ffffff][font="Century Gothic"]I have tried
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Hoo boy. As if Johto didn't get enough hate.
From what has been revealed from Gold/Silver beta content, I'd say one of the most confounding decisions they've ever made was removing a Fire/Water-type seal Pokémon. Generation II didn't introduce many Fire-types to begin with (and the ones that you can get in the main game either are your starter or a Magmar, or require a Fire Stone to evolve), and cutting this one in favor of Pokémon like freaking Aipom, Yanma, and Sunflora puzzles me (sure, Aipom and Yanma have evolutions now, but WHY did you leave them so mediocre in Generation II?). Diamond and Pearl get a lot of flak for their lack of Fire-types, but Gold and Silver have it nearly as bad. And this seal Pokémon could've fixed that problem. But alas, it wasn't meant to be...
Introducing a new type (Dark) and not even giving players the opportunity to use it themselves outside of Umbreon doesn't sit right with me, either. At least you can find Magnemite early on in the game, Pineco evolves into Forretress through normal means, and Silver players get a cool metal bird too. So why can't we have more than one Dark-type in our Johto playthroughs when NPCs can rock Murkrow and Houndoom? On that note, while there are potentially some interesting ideas in locking new mons to the postgame (like Tyranitar), many of them seem like Pokémon we should already be having in the main game: Houndour, Slugma, Murkrow, Misdreavus, and the like.
I mentioned the Fire Stone in the first paragraph, and there's a very good reason. In the original Gold/Silver, there is absolutely no way to obtain any stones besides the Sun Stone in the main game, and even after reaching Kanto, Bill's grandfather will give you one Water, one Fire, one Thunder, and one Leaf Stone. One. One of each. That's right. Apart from the Mystery Gift, you only get ONE OF EACH. At least you can get more than one Moon Stone, but locking these stones to the postgame renders a lot of existing Pokémon useless beyond the midgame at best, and by the time you get these stones you're likely just using them to fill your dex. Crystal fixes this problem with the Pokégear, which is...fine, I suppose.
HeartGold and SoulSilver thankfully fixed a lot of these problems, but I feel they're band-aids at best. You can get a Slugma as an egg from Primo to remedy the dearth of Fire-types in Johto, but good luck getting that Slugma egg without the use of a website; as for Arcanine and Ninetales, we'll get to that later. The Safari Zone allows you to get Murkrow so that players now have another usable Dark-type, but clearly the Safari Zone is as far as they're willing to go when giving players just that little bit more variety in Pokémon. Evolution stones are more accessible thanks to the Pokéathlon, but requiring the player to play minigames to get the stones before the postgame isn't my favorite game design decision, so if you want that Arcanine or Ninetales, you're gonna need to grind.
HGSS are good remakes, don't get me wrong, but I feel they could've fixed some of Johto's problems a little more thoroughly, e.g. the problems I stated earlier (although that Fire/Water seal is obviously never coming back), the level curve, Johto mons themselves being shafted in favor of older ones, especially in Gym Leader fights, etc. At least they're not as stingy as FRLG in Pokémon availability (seriously, you have do an entire sidequest in the postgame to trade with the Hoenn games???).
From what has been revealed from Gold/Silver beta content, I'd say one of the most confounding decisions they've ever made was removing a Fire/Water-type seal Pokémon. Generation II didn't introduce many Fire-types to begin with (and the ones that you can get in the main game either are your starter or a Magmar, or require a Fire Stone to evolve), and cutting this one in favor of Pokémon like freaking Aipom, Yanma, and Sunflora puzzles me (sure, Aipom and Yanma have evolutions now, but WHY did you leave them so mediocre in Generation II?). Diamond and Pearl get a lot of flak for their lack of Fire-types, but Gold and Silver have it nearly as bad. And this seal Pokémon could've fixed that problem. But alas, it wasn't meant to be...
Introducing a new type (Dark) and not even giving players the opportunity to use it themselves outside of Umbreon doesn't sit right with me, either. At least you can find Magnemite early on in the game, Pineco evolves into Forretress through normal means, and Silver players get a cool metal bird too. So why can't we have more than one Dark-type in our Johto playthroughs when NPCs can rock Murkrow and Houndoom? On that note, while there are potentially some interesting ideas in locking new mons to the postgame (like Tyranitar), many of them seem like Pokémon we should already be having in the main game: Houndour, Slugma, Murkrow, Misdreavus, and the like.
I mentioned the Fire Stone in the first paragraph, and there's a very good reason. In the original Gold/Silver, there is absolutely no way to obtain any stones besides the Sun Stone in the main game, and even after reaching Kanto, Bill's grandfather will give you one Water, one Fire, one Thunder, and one Leaf Stone. One. One of each. That's right. Apart from the Mystery Gift, you only get ONE OF EACH. At least you can get more than one Moon Stone, but locking these stones to the postgame renders a lot of existing Pokémon useless beyond the midgame at best, and by the time you get these stones you're likely just using them to fill your dex. Crystal fixes this problem with the Pokégear, which is...fine, I suppose.
HeartGold and SoulSilver thankfully fixed a lot of these problems, but I feel they're band-aids at best. You can get a Slugma as an egg from Primo to remedy the dearth of Fire-types in Johto, but good luck getting that Slugma egg without the use of a website; as for Arcanine and Ninetales, we'll get to that later. The Safari Zone allows you to get Murkrow so that players now have another usable Dark-type, but clearly the Safari Zone is as far as they're willing to go when giving players just that little bit more variety in Pokémon. Evolution stones are more accessible thanks to the Pokéathlon, but requiring the player to play minigames to get the stones before the postgame isn't my favorite game design decision, so if you want that Arcanine or Ninetales, you're gonna need to grind.
HGSS are good remakes, don't get me wrong, but I feel they could've fixed some of Johto's problems a little more thoroughly, e.g. the problems I stated earlier (although that Fire/Water seal is obviously never coming back), the level curve, Johto mons themselves being shafted in favor of older ones, especially in Gym Leader fights, etc. At least they're not as stingy as FRLG in Pokémon availability (seriously, you have do an entire sidequest in the postgame to trade with the Hoenn games???).
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There's plenty. Just to name a few:
Half of Gen 1
The Freeze status
Half of Johto Gym leaders not having a single Johto Pokémon even in the remakes.
Steel type's absurd amount of resistances (especially before Gen 6)
Ice type still not resisting anything but Ice
Gen 1-6 Thunder Wave
Making Dark Special and Ghost Physical in Gen 2 and 3
Toxic TM compatibility from Gen 1 to 7
Gengar having Levitate in Gen 3-6
Most of the Mega evolutions
Game Freak still not modernizing IV/EV mechanics despite they've already shown they're capable of doing something better in PLA.
Half of Gen 1
The Freeze status
Half of Johto Gym leaders not having a single Johto Pokémon even in the remakes.
Steel type's absurd amount of resistances (especially before Gen 6)
Ice type still not resisting anything but Ice
Gen 1-6 Thunder Wave
Making Dark Special and Ghost Physical in Gen 2 and 3
Toxic TM compatibility from Gen 1 to 7
Gengar having Levitate in Gen 3-6
Most of the Mega evolutions
Game Freak still not modernizing IV/EV mechanics despite they've already shown they're capable of doing something better in PLA.
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Why every game after gen 5 is not allowed to have even a decent postgame
Sweet Serenity
Advocate of Truth
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I thought generation II and its remakes had a good post-game that allowed you to travel to Kanto and collect the Kanto gym badges before facing Red in Mt. Silver. The generation I remakes also had the Sevii Islands post game. Other than that, I agree with you.
I can't really think of anything right off the bat that Game Freak did that didn't make any sense, other than to agree with Shooting Star about them not replacing the Game Corner's gambling aspect with mini-games similar to those in Pokémon Stadium, and another user that mentioned them weakening the effect of Darkrai's Dark Void. It did make sense to make it so that only Darkrai could use the move, but making its accuracy 50% made no sense, especially considering that it is a signature move used only by a Mythical Pokémon, which means that it is almost guaranteed to be banned from most official competitions anyway.
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Palamon
Silence is Purple
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Actually, here's a fun fact: in Time/Darkness, the starter choices for the player were not gender locked. And it's possible to play as a male Skitty. (I've done before). But, you probably meant the partner Pokemon, right?
That was always pretty weird in PMD that you couldn't just pick for your partner to be male, or female, but all the partner Pokemon in T/D were male except Chikorita and Torchic... (In sky, there were more female partners in Skitty and Eevee, but that's it.)
in Red Rescue Team and Blue Rescue Team, your partner didn't have a gender, only the player character did (and even then it added nothing to the game anyway) I do agree it didn't make sense they just assigned a gender to your partner Pokemon. They did away with this in Super Mystery Dungeon (but gender was like irrelevant in that game, in the long run)
Alright, I rambled, sorry.
I agree with you on everything except...
The Toxic TM. I think it makes perfect sense every Pokemon can learn Toxic through TM because every Pokemon probably has some sort of toxins in their body, even if they're not Poison type. That's just my opinion on the matter, anyway.
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Pretty sure HG/SS are part of gen 4 and without a doubt also have great post game stuff, arguably the best postgame of a poemon game. But gen 6 and onwards? Out to lunch
Sweet Serenity
Advocate of Truth
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Yeah, generation six onward is definitely where they put in extra effort to ensure that players had a good post-game experience.
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I was actually talking about the hero options in Explorers of Sky. But yeah, the partner options in the Explorers games are also an example of the issue.
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Why there has to be some kind of new gimmick every gen. It's just getting so.. tedious.
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Bringing back single-use TMs just to force people to do things like Raid Battles in SWSH or digging for treasure in BDSP's Underground. Makes both of these activities feel like a chore at times.
Being able to paralyze Electric types in older games. They've at least fixed this problem in newer games, but it should never have been possible in the first place.
Only giving out BP in the BDSP Battle Tower after winning seven consecutive battles. You get BP for each win in the SWSH Battle Tower, so why make it far more tedious to grind BP in BDSP?
Leon being the only "Boss Trainer" in the SWSH Battle Tower and always having GMax Charizard on his team. Would have made the SWSH Battle Tower far more interesting if there had been more variety.
Being able to paralyze Electric types in older games. They've at least fixed this problem in newer games, but it should never have been possible in the first place.
Only giving out BP in the BDSP Battle Tower after winning seven consecutive battles. You get BP for each win in the SWSH Battle Tower, so why make it far more tedious to grind BP in BDSP?
Leon being the only "Boss Trainer" in the SWSH Battle Tower and always having GMax Charizard on his team. Would have made the SWSH Battle Tower far more interesting if there had been more variety.
^ This. The Hoenn contests were a unique alternative mechanic that expanded the capabilities of Pokemon moves and ORAS giving it its own league objective of sorts was an excellent addition that I'd love to see in more games or even expanded into its own game.
Primarily, I struggle to understand the logic of the TR mechanic in SWSH.
There is a certain intrigue to requiring more relevant investment and effort to earn quality moves and it's an immense improvement from the game corner.
Casino games are slow, obnoxious and time consuming, most of the time for one TM and I feel the Game Corner as a whole outlived its relevance after the first generation when it was meant to conceal Team Rocket's hideout.
However, investing all the most coveted moves into the TR mechanic while the reusable TMs are, for the most part, reduced to throw aways is nonsense and feels like a step backwards because it's returning the relevance and desire to the one-use TM system.
I find a similar logic issue in the inability to wear the themed uniforms in the gym challenges. The ones that must be purchased are quite expensive (18k iirc) and the vendors are in the gyms but what the hell is the point of them if they can't be worn in the gym challenges?
It seems quite a few people are not fans of the generation gimmicks, but the D-Max/G-Max concept is the only one that I have a problem with. I find it insubstantial and to have the most unnatural feel. The two forms have almost nothing more than an aesthetic difference (not that the aestetics of the G-max forms are not appealing) which lends no logic to the exclusivity of the G-max forms.
Alright, now for something less exclusive to Gen 8, I did not mean for that to happen, I want to see the follower mechanic in more games. I don't understand the logic in bringing it back in HGSS but in nothing else. It's not the most significant feature but it's fun and aesthetically pleasing.
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Yeah, the limitation to the DLC in SWSH was disappointing, just more extortion.
I have not had a chance to play BDSP because due to their duel releases, I had to choose between them and Legends Arceus and chose the new game over the remakes. I choice I do not regret in the least therefore I did not know there was a follower mechanic in BDSP but I am disappointed to hear that it is so poor.
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Yeah you chose wisely.
I'm terrible with money so I own all the games haha no idea when I'll actually play through them. I did at least come to SwSh so late to the game that I bought them with expansion pass included, at a discount. Some of the following in BDSP is pretty neat, Monferno bounds on his knuckles like an actual monkey for example. But then Palkia is barely taller than Gallade (there's clearly a maximum size to the sprites), which is absurd. HGSS acknowledged size better despite being 2D on a grid.
Expansion pass included? I've never seen that. I finished the main game in Sword before the expansion passes were released but received Shield as a Christmas gift last year and had to purchase an expansion pass separately.
The poses sound cool but the scaling inaccuracy in BDSP is horribly lazy. Legends Arceus might not have followers but it did allow Pokemon to be released into the overworld as a fixture and the legendries were appropriately huge (i.e standing taller than most buildings in the Jubalife Village), so there should have been no excuses for BDSP.