The Staff Feedback Thread

[bobandbill]

I just looked myself. While I missed the events in there (was on leave), any mod actions taken in that thread by Hashtag were fine, and another hstaffer was already also involved with that thread.

If you have any other specific complaints, then forward them to one of the hstaff, but if it's about Aethestode moving to another site, then you'd need to be able to argue how Hastag was actually acting outside of the section rules in doing his mod duties, and again, I can confirm that a number of hstaff members dealt with posts in those threads too (which included a host of flaming/insults looking at deleted posts, so don't assume you have the full story).

 

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

I really wasn't a fan of how Aethestode's threads were handled. I don't have any clear examples of Hashtag acting outside of the rules (and how could I? y'all kinda swept everything under the rug), but would instead argue that shouldn't be within the rules. By my understanding, the original post Aethestode made three times was to the effect of "Adventure Blue will be coming soon, but the thread hasn't been accepted because it doesn't have enough screenshots." I'm led to believe it was the latter portion that made it off-topic; while Aethestode is allowed to say that he has submitted an Adventure Blue thread, he isn't allowed to complain about it not being accepted.

I really don't see the point of making this delete-worthy. The post, by merit of containing the first bit of info, already contains legitimately interesting information- this was the point Went stressed when I asked him about this. For the posts to thus be judged as "irrelevant to topic" because of that makes absolutely no sense. Furthermore, just because the issue is something administrative and specific to blue, why is that suddenly less interesting? If the issue is there's only four screenshots, that says something. It says the rules are different then what they used to be (I think? IIRC it used to be only 4 to get out of sidetrash quarantine). It implies that the hack's not actually very far along if there's that few screenshots. TBF I haven't seen the post proper though, so I could be wrong- maybe there's something objectionable in the other stuff he added. If so, that should've been more clearly cited as the reason, and not that the entire post is "irrelevant to topic".

Also, I take back what I said about not having examples of improper mod behavior- I might have one. The first hidden post by Rago after #26 (which is currently by DarkBlazing Groudon in case there's further deletions), which was the question that initially set this off- what does it contain? I'm lead to believe it was asking when Adventure Blue would be a thing. By Went's own admission, such a post is 100% within the rules to ask. That said, as you say I do not have the luxury of knowing the full story. (It's my personal philosophy that moderation should be hands-off and only remove things when they're outright toxic, but to each his own I guess.) Looking back at the rules, in the event that it was judged as asking for a release date (which is not the reason cited for deletion), I'd argue that's totally bogus as the dev had (apparently- yay not being on the side with concrete knowledge!) willingly answered the question three times before it was deleted.


Sorry if this was kinda rambly but the whole incident left me with a really sour taste in my mouth and makes me reluctant to post future projects at PC, for fear I'll be heckled by the mods who have plenty of reason to hate me at this point, a history of being delete-happy with posts, and little apparent oversight.

 

[Livewire]

I've been sniffing around to see just what exactly happened here, but from what I can see, Hashtag's actions were within his rights as a moderator and he made the right call. Saying that the thread wasn't approved for lack of screenshots isn't "interesting info", it's exactly what is is - off-topic, something that should have been in a VM to a ROM mod, if you wanted to talk about why it wasn't approved. Then, a snarky and rude response -

"(so how is it even irrelevant? [so dumb]), and it's even in my thread. Anyway, I'm just going to post it again, hopefully this time he can read.

- warranted deletion because it too was off-topic, not to mention rude. And then things went downhill from there.

And, to be frank, the reaction from the people involved in the thread was ridiculous and poorly handled - turning into an angry mob isn't the way you contest actions from staff. If you have a problem, you PM them in private to talk thing over, and if that doesn't work, then you bring it up with myself or another member of Higher Staff, any S-Mod or Admin.

 

[Aethestode]

I've been sniffing around to see just what exactly happened here, but from what I can see, Hashtag's actions were within his rights as a moderator and he made the right call. Saying that the thread wasn't approved for lack of screenshots isn't "interesting info", it's exactly what is is - off-topic, something that should have been in a VM to a ROM mod, if you wanted to talk about why it wasn't approved. Then, a snarky and rude response -



- warranted deletion because it too was off-topic, not to mention rude. And then things went downhill from there.

And, to be frank, the reaction from the people involved in the thread was ridiculous and poorly handled - turning into an angry mob isn't the way you contest actions from staff. If you have a problem, you PM them in private to talk thing over, and if that doesn't work, then you bring it up with myself or another member of Higher Staff, any S-Mod or Admin.

Again, so answering a question in my own thread is considered off topic. Wow.
In addition, even if I wasn't answering a question how is the post be considered off topic, when all 4 hacks are linked together as they're direct sequel/prequel to each other. I think as the creator of the hack, I think I would know whether an information is considered on topic. I mean how would you know? You didn't create the hack. You just spectate and add your 2 cents.

How would you define "interesting"? What you deem is uninteresting, isn't to others. To me that post was important. Why?
a) It tells people to calm down as I didn't just skipped the Blue Chapter and just went ahead with the Yellow Chapter.
b) It also tells people why a thread for Blue Chapter wasn't made yet as people were asking throughout the Yellow thread.
c) It's a bit close minded to say whether the post was interesting or not. If it's not interesting, people wouldn't have asked.

That comment was posted after the deletion, hence I wrote "hopefully he can read next time". Talk about taking things out of context.

Like the staff handled the job better? Banning people who supported me, and deleting the posts that gave insight while leaving the one that supported the mod. If you want to be bias, at least make it less obvious.

 

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

First off, I'm saddened that you seem to have ignored everything I typed beyond the first sentence.

Saying that the thread wasn't approved for lack of screenshots isn't "interesting info", it's exactly what is is - off-topic, something that should have been in a VM to a ROM mod, if you wanted to talk about why it wasn't approved.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there:

Hacks threads that do not meet the rules set above will simply be ignored and unapproved. A thread will not appear if you do not meet these requirements. Please be patient about your thread being approved – it is not an immediate process. You may have to wait at least 48 hours before your hack thread is approved. If your hack thread isn't approved, you slipped up somewhere. You may PM a moderator for information on why your thread may not have been approved.

You may PM or VM a moderator. In no way does this prohibit mentioning that a thread was rejected or why it was rejected. In this particular case it seems rather relevant to mention why the Adventure Blue thread was rejected as he was answering a question about Adventure Blue.

Then, a snarky and rude response...warranted deletion because it too was off-topic, not to mention rude.

Rude or no, I'd like to point out that this was an open question to the moderator that was obviously watching the thread. The fact that it was deleted tells me they cared much less that the user knew why the posts were being hidden, or how to make them acceptable, than that the forums looked peachy keen to an outsider. Personally speaking, were I the mod, I'd just upfront publicly reply to that; this makes him look like the fool for not knowing the rules, answers the question, keeps the useful part of the post, and clearly demonstrates to the public what's out of line. What Hashtag did instead is quietly hide the posts and in the second case drop a cheeky message, which while apparently inline with PC's moderation policies (this isn't my main point btw), only managed to sweep the whole incident under the rug. This not only causes collateral damage in that it removes the answer to the legitimate question (why was the question removed again? I asked this and you didn't touch on it at all), it removes the issue as a whole, leaving Aethestode to give the only visible account of what happened, work a bunch of people up, and frustrate any regular users trying to work out what the hell happened.

And, to be frank, the reaction from the people involved in the thread was ridiculous and poorly handled - turning into an angry mob isn't the way you contest actions from staff. If you have a problem, you PM them in private to talk thing over, and if that doesn't work, then you bring it up with myself or another member of Higher Staff, any S-Mod or Admin.

Well sorry for not being the only one to feel this activity was sketchy? I don't really appreciate being dismissed as an angry mob because I went to the Staff Feedback thread with feedback for the staff.


To make this clear because I'm afraid you won't get it: I'm not asking you to lynch Hashtag. I get that your policies give him diplomatic immunity because you're chums. I'd just like y'all to change your methods so this crap never happens again, because the event that set it off isn't really a good thing for the mods to be doing anyway. Please stop deleting every post that's remotely incorrect; transparent moderation is more helpful. Yes, that is how little faith your post inspires me with that I have to add this paragraph. I'm seriously tempted to post a mocking one-paragraph reply but I don't like being completely unhelpful, and I hope y'all are smart enough to take a little snark with a legit post.

Finally:

Also, I take back what I said about not having examples of improper mod behavior- I might have one. The first hidden post by Rago after #26 (which is currently by DarkBlazing Groudon in case there's further deletions), which was the question that initially set this off- what does it contain? I'm lead to believe it was asking when Adventure Blue would be a thing. By Went's own admission, such a post is 100% within the rules to ask. That said, as you say I do not have the luxury of knowing the full story. (It's my personal philosophy that moderation should be hands-off and only remove things when they're outright toxic, but to each his own I guess.) Looking back at the rules, in the event that it was judged as asking for a release date (which is not the reason cited for deletion), I'd argue that's totally bogus as the dev had (apparently- yay not being on the side with concrete knowledge!) willingly answered the question three times before it was deleted.

This went totally unanswered if anyone would like to clarify. I doubt it's that complicated.

 

[Livewire]

Again, so answering a question in my own thread is considered off topic. Wow.
In addition, even if I wasn't answering a question how is the post be considered off topic, when all 4 hacks are linked together as they're direct sequel/prequel to each other. I think as the creator of the hack, I think I would know whether an information is considered on topic. I mean how would you know? You didn't create the hack. You just spectate and add your 2 cents.

How would you define "interesting"? What you deem is uninteresting, isn't to others. To me that post was important. Why?
a) It tells people to calm down as I didn't just skipped the Blue Chapter and just went ahead with the Yellow Chapter.
b) It also tells people why a thread for Blue Chapter wasn't made yet as people were asking throughout the Yellow thread.
c) It's a bit close minded to say whether the post was interesting or not. If it's not interesting, people wouldn't have asked.


That comment was posted after the deletion, hence I wrote "hopefully he can read next time". Talk about taking things out of context.

Like the staff handled the job better? Banning people who supported me, and deleting the posts that gave insight while leaving the one that supported the mod. If you want to be bias, at least make it less obvious.

If the question's unrelated to the discussion aspect of your hack, then by definition, yes, it's off-topic. I know because I am one of the oldest tenured staff members here and I am a Super Moderator. It's my job to know the difference. You posting that the hack wasn't approved for the lack of screenshots isn't on topic at all, that's all there is to it. Feel free to go on about what constitutes 'interesting' all you want, it changes nothing. You decided to keep pushing when you were told to stop, and you were chastised for it accordingly.

The bannings were a troll account, and the same person evading that ban on a new account to harass Hashtag/Christos with. That's not exactly someone I would want for a supporter. And yes, given the circumstances and given the sheer ridiculousness of the reaction - calls for the mods to be fired, threatening to leave PC, threaten to never post hacks here again, people actually taking the time to make troll accounts to mess with people, on top of all the rude, snide and disrespectful comments made in the thread and elsewhere, I would consider the situation handled fairly well.

First off, I'm saddened that you seem to have ignored everything I typed beyond the first sentence.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there:

You may PM or VM a moderator. In no way does this prohibit mentioning that a thread was rejected or why it was rejected. In this particular case it seems rather relevant to mention why the Adventure Blue thread was rejected as he was answering a question about Adventure Blue.


Rude or no, I'd like to point out that this was an open question to the moderator that was obviously watching the thread. The fact that it was deleted tells me they cared much less that the user knew why the posts were being hidden, or how to make them acceptable, than that the forums looked peachy keen to an outsider. Personally speaking, were I the mod, I'd just upfront publicly reply to that; this makes him look like the fool for not knowing the rules, answers the question, keeps the useful part of the post, and clearly demonstrates to the public what's out of line. What Hashtag did instead is quietly hide the posts and in the second case drop a cheeky message, which while apparently inline with PC's moderation policies (this isn't my main point btw), only managed to sweep the whole incident under the rug. This not only causes collateral damage in that it removes the answer to the legitimate question (why was the question removed again? I asked this and you didn't touch on it at all), it removes the issue as a whole, leaving Aethestode to give the only visible account of what happened, work a bunch of people up, and frustrate any regular users trying to work out what the hell happened.

Well sorry for not being the only one to feel this activity was sketchy? I don't really appreciate being dismissed as an angry mob because I went to the Staff Feedback thread with feedback for the staff.


To make this clear because I'm afraid you won't get it: I'm not asking you to lynch Hashtag. I get that your policies give him diplomatic immunity because you're chums. I'd just like y'all to change your methods so this crap never happens again, because the event that set it off isn't really a good thing for the mods to be doing anyway. Please stop deleting every post that's remotely incorrect; transparent moderation is more helpful. Yes, that is how little faith your post inspires me with that I have to add this paragraph. I'm seriously tempted to post a mocking one-paragraph reply but I don't like being completely unhelpful, and I hope y'all are smart enough to take a little snark with a legit post.

Finally:

This went totally unanswered if anyone would like to clarify. I doubt it's that complicated.

I'm not sure what part of "VM or PM a moderator" you don't understand. When you bring it up in the thread itself, in a crass manner, it stops being constructive and useful and instead becomes off-topic, spam, etc.

You may PM or VM a moderator. In no way does this prohibit mentioning that a thread was rejected or why it was rejected. In this particular case it seems rather relevant to mention why the Adventure Blue thread was rejected as he was answering a question about Adventure Blue.

You're misinterpreting the rule.

Hacks threads that do not meet the rules set above will simply be ignored and unapproved. A thread will not appear if you do not meet these requirements.

Someone who submitted a hack and didn't see their thread should automatically know that it didn't meet the requirements. The "you may PM a moderator for information on why your thread may not have been approved" bit is how you contact the mod for questions about why. The sole method by which you're supposed to contact a staff member about that sort of thing is via VM/PM. Not in the thread itself. This should be self-explanatory.

Rude or no, I'd like to point out that this was an open question to the moderator that was obviously watching the thread.

It quite frankly does not matter. Once you cross over that threshold, into personal attacks, rudeness, etc, it's going to get deleted, regardless of what else was said there.

There's nothing sketchy here. I get it, you're a fan of the hack and don't want to see it locked, but you cannot mean to tell me the response to its closure by some of the ROM Hacking community was appropriate. And while you came here to say your peace, you didn't so so in the manner in which this thread is accustomed to. Snark and mocking tones won't get you anywhere, so I suggest you drop it.

He doesn't have any immunity because he didn't do anything wrong to begin with, and he's not being "protected" because we're "chums". The rules in the ROM Hacking section are the way they are because they need to be to handle the rigors of the busiest and most demanding section on the entire site, and that's not going to change - should be straightforward and clear enough so that there's no confusion, I trust.

1. ITS cool that u'd make thread but i think you should begin with blu when red is finish but you have a big far (fire but i've said it so because its lol) for making hacks and the other one person too.2. Hope that tomorrow is coming the thread for blue

That's what he said. Not exactly asking when Blue "would be around", just said that he hoped it would be soon. Not a whole lot of substance there to go on, and given how close it is to asking for a release date, I can see why it was deleted as well, although given how English isn't his first language, I personally would give him a mulligan on that one. But I'm not the moderator there, that's not my call to make.

 

[Aethestode]

If the question's unrelated to the discussion aspect of your hack, then by definition, yes, it's off-topic. I know because I am one of the oldest tenured staff members here and I am a Super Moderator. It's my job to know the difference. You posting that the hack wasn't approved for the lack of screenshots isn't on topic at all, that's all there is to it. Feel free to go on about what constitutes 'interesting' all you want, it changes nothing. You decided to keep pushing when you were told to stop, and you were chastised for it accordingly.

The bannings were a troll account, and the same person evading that ban on a new account to harass Hashtag/Christos with. That's not exactly someone I would want for a supporter. And yes, given the circumstances and given the sheer ridiculousness of the reaction - calls for the mods to be fired, threatening to leave PC, threaten to never post hacks here again, people actually taking the time to make troll accounts to mess with people, on top of all the rude, snide and disrespectful comments made in the thread and elsewhere, I would consider the situation handled fairly well.

So you're saying you would know someone's hack more than the creator himself, that makes sense. Again, the question Rago asked were deleted only after I questioned Hashtag. Seriously, I'm sure there's a time somewhere that shows when each posts are deleted why not just look at it :/. Ofcourse it changes nothing, I never said it did. You were the one who went on the "interesting" rant saying how the post wasn't interesting (do you not remember or just...).

Handled well hence why people rioted :/ . That makes sense. Why are you a mod again?

Yep, it doens't matter what happened before as long as you hurt his chum then your post will get an instant deletion. However, if the posts hurt everyone else but his chum then it'll stay as long as it goes unnoticed. Okay, you guys are chums (you probably appointed him since you guys are chums) we get it, just don't be obvious about it :/, sigh.

Actually, I don't get why I'm even bothering arguing with someone like that 0.0. Just ignore what I said.

 

[Nah]

About this whole business in the ROM Hacks section: I don't know exactly what went on in there because I never go into that section, but there is one thing I'd like to comment on.

Some of the people who are against the actions that Hashtag took keep saying that the rest of the staff is "protecting him" and not doing anything "because they're friends". This is ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥. Us Moderators are not immune to disciplinary actions by hstaff, despite what people seem to think. I can guarantee you that if I started abusing my powers as a mod and was being a douchebag to everyone that hstaff would be quick to fire my ass. The same applies to everyone else on staff. No exceptions. I like to think that hstaff knows what its doing (these people were chosen for a reason), and if Hashtag really did overstep his boundaries, hstaff would've done something about it.

And really, stop crying about it. Just re-sumbit the thread and move on. What is fighting about it gonna do for y'all?

 

[£]

http://www.pokecommunity.com/converse.php?u=417400&u2=130337

So, I was informed about this, and I have to say I am appalled.

I don't think this is professional conduct, and I would've honestly thought people that had been around this long would know better than to say such condescending things where they can easily be seen.

Staff are free to be as unprofessional as they like behind closed doors, I can't see there, neither can the rest of the forum. Feel free to express such sentiment there, but I'm certain that there should be /some standards/ for what is said in public, especially about something a few people do agree about. It's pretty incendiary and were I a more hot blooded individual, I wouldn't be quite so polite as to raise an objection to it here.

I'd feel a lot better if I could have complete assurance that nothing like this will be thoughtlessly put where it could well rile a fair few people in the future. A couple of apologies would not be amiss either. Cheers.

 

[£]

Have to say this is rather irritating to see. It isn't about "showing how mature you are", which is getting slung around in most mature threads in a very condescending way. But, it's their opinion too, which there is nothing wrong with having.

I have absolutely nothing against them for having that opinion, they're free to disagree. Doing so in that manner and tone though in a little exchange that can easily be seen is not okay with me, though. I'd be repeating myself if I were to harp on about that again though! 8D

 

[Tsutarja]

http://www.pokecommunity.com/converse.php?u=417400&u2=130337

So, I was informed about this, and I have to say I am appalled.

I don't think this is professional conduct, and I would've honestly thought people that had been around this long would know better than to say such condescending things where they can easily be seen.

Staff are free to be as unprofessional as they like behind closed doors, I can't see there, neither can the rest of the forum. Feel free to express such sentiment there, but I'm certain that there should be /some standards/ for what is said in public, especially about something a few people do agree about. It's pretty incendiary and were I a more hot blooded individual, I wouldn't be quite so polite as to raise an objection to it here. If you feel that conversation like that is inappropriate, instead of coming to this thread to publicly complain about it, use the report system and report said VMs so that the h-staff can investigate to see if anything went wrong, or send a message privately to said staff members about your feelings.

I'd feel a lot better if I could have complete assurance that nothing like this will be thoughtlessly put where it could well rile a fair few people in the future. A couple of apologies would not be amiss either. Cheers.

I don't mean to go on the offensive side of your post there being that I'm on staff as well, but I'll try to make this sound as unbiased as possible.

First and foremost, those are visitor messages. VMs are meant to be more laid back and casual for having a conversation between members. If you go through other VM conversations amongst other staff members here (or even past staff members), you can sometimes see that we act a little "unprofessional" with other members because we have friends on PC too, just like any other member that we like to have a little socialization and interaction with. It also really isn't anybody else's business (except for h-staff when they're investigating something) on what happens between two people, unless said person was saying something bad about another member through VMs, or bullying/harassing another member.

Also, I want to add that it isn't a staff member's job to "act professional" all the time as you put it, unless they're moderating within their section. A staff member can act just as much like a normal member could, except for when it comes to handling staff things such as their section or other staff-related matters.

Now on the other hand, if they posted that publicly in a topic, then that would be a whole different matter, because then it'd be derailing the topic. However, I see no harm whatsoever in that VM conversation that you linked to on how Magic and elheroeoscuro are as moderators.

 

[Mana1]

If you believe what I have said is really 'appalling' then I am sorry for that, but a to give a small comment so much wait is silly in itself. The comment was actually amended, when pointed out to me by another member, to get my point across more clearly.

"A vocal minority are all for proving just how mature they are by heavily petitioning things so forcefully, which tends to actually work against them."

I do not see anything wrong about this comment, nor is it unprofessional - it merely states facts as I see them. If I said 'so-and-so member' and mentioned specific people it would be much more unfair and uncalled for - but that is not the case.

I realise you may not be happy with this answer, but please understand I'm not seeking to attack anyone or act out of turn.

Since I have already raised the original comment (before changing) with higher staff myself, I'm not sure there is much I can say.

 

[£]

First and foremost, those are visitor messages. VMs are meant to be more laid back and casual for having a conversation between members. If you go through other VM conversations amongst other staff members here (or even past staff members), you can sometimes see that we act a little "unprofessional" with other members because we have friends on PC too, just like any other member that we like to have a little socialization and interaction with. It also really isn't anybody else's business (except for h-staff when they're investigating something) on what happens between two people, unless said person was saying something bad about another member through VMs, or bullying/harassing another member.

I'm aware it's not red hot outright flagrant misconduct (otherwise I'd have gone straight to hstaff rather than putting it up for a bit of feedback/discussion here), and I'm aware VMs are more laid back. If you're being totally unprofessional in terms of like, just chatting/joking about something totally unrelated to a matter that is under serious discussion, that's fine. However, I think you're undermining the importance of a suggestion that a few members do feel would be a good thing for the forum, and to undermine that in public view is not acceptable conduct. It's dodgy from members, and it's not okay for staff. I felt degraded reading that about what I'd just been discussing. I mean, if it's okay to make members feel that way, that's fair enough. I don't think it is, however. Maybe it's not outright flammable, but it's still a condescending way to talk about what some members feel would be nice to have.

Also, I want to add that it isn't a staff member's job to "act professional" all the time as you put it, unless they're moderating within their section. A staff member can act just as much like a normal member could, except for when it comes to handling staff things such as their section or other staff-related matters.

This falls under "other staff-related matters." They both were involved in this topic that pertained to the forum itself. If it was irrelevant, I wouldn't be on about this. If they were talking in a condescending way about someone off the forum/etc. it would be absolutely none of my business. But this is something they've actually made a public stance about, in a forum I feel should be treated with perhaps more respect than it seems to be getting at the moment.

Now on the other hand, if they posted that publicly in a topic, then that would be a whole different matter, because then it'd be derailing the topic. However, I see no harm whatsoever in that VM conversation that you linked to on how Magic and elheroeoscuro are as moderators.

If they'd posted it publicly in the topic, they should have their positions revoked without question as it's... beyond words as to how unacceptable that would be. In this case, no, it's not as severe. But it's still completely undermining a suggestion for the forum that they've been involved with. If they weren't even involved, it STILL would've been poor conduct.

I have absolutely nothing against them having opinions.
I have absolutely nothing against them talking about them in private if they feel that way.
That, in public however is not appropriate. Even if it's a VM which I agree is less bad than being outrageous enough to post that in the topic, it's still bad. That kind of logic is like saying "stabbing someone in the shoulder is fine because they could've gone on a killing spree instead" and it's fallacious.

If you believe what I have said is really 'appalling' then I am sorry for that, but a to give a small comment so much wait is silly in itself. The comment was actually amended, when pointed out to me by another member, to get my point across more clearly.

"A vocal minority are all for proving just how mature they are by heavily petitioning things so forcefully, which tends to actually work against them."

I do not see anything wrong about this comment, nor is it unprofessional - it merely states facts as I see them. If I said 'so-and-so member' and mentioned specific people it would be much more unfair and uncalled for - but that is not the case.

I realise you may not be happy with this answer, but please understand I'm not seeking to attack anyone or act out of turn.

Since I have already raised this comment with higher staff myself, I'm not sure there is much I can say.

I think last time I checked it was like 19 for, 9 against? It's a ~70% majority out of that sample of people who particularly cared about it, and in one case, there was someone who'd already gone against and then reassessed his position. The way you talked about said "vocal minority" was done in such a way as to dismiss it as a silly suggestion even though ample reasoning has been provided in the thread. For you to treat it as "insignificant" and to box it off as something unimportant after reading (or not reading) any of that reasoning is to say that you are dismissive towards that and don't feel like their opinions matter... in the suggestion forum of all places. It's a little bizarre, I appreciate the apology, and I would just ask that a little consideration was made before you said things like that in public view again. It isn't professional conduct. I realise I personally may have taken this harder than most, appalling might have been strong from a neutral viewpoint, but it still isn't totally 100% hunky dory as far as I feel about this.

 

[Oryx]

For the record I was the person that brought it up, and when I told Magic that the edited version was no better than the original version because the issue is the implication that the only people who care about the suggestion are people trying to "prove themselves to be mature", his response was he didn't care because there was nothing more he could do because he already edited it once (and I guess after one edit you are locked out of editing forever, and definitely locked out of introspection on how public words have consequences) and my criticism of it was "persecution" and "lecturing" and I made "demeaning" posts anyway. Also pretty unprofessional.

I wouldn't have brought it anywhere because it also wasn't worthy of a report, but it was jarring because PC makes such a big deal about bringing things to staff if you're upset and I explained how it was actually hurting members and when he didn't get it the first time and edited a part of it that didn't change anything the response was basically "oh well get over it lol." I've always been a proponent of staff acting more professional in public anyway, as I'm sure some hstaff know, but I thought the line of insulting members to other staff members publicly was a line that was agreed-upon. Is it not?

Edit: also he told me it wasn't "particularly harmful", yet this is the third person to get harmed by it.

 

[Mana1]

Oryx, since it's now not midnight and I actually have a keyboard to use, sorry for my brashness last night. If it further offended you, then sorry. I thought my edit made things clear enough, but as I just further elaborated by PM Luck "vocal minority" does not equal "all people with that opinion". I don't remember saying "get over it" as such, I was quite confused as to why me changing it seemed to make me come off worse. As I said in an above post, I brought this up to HQ to assess my own comment shortly after your PMs.

This is just a combination of misunderstanding and miscommunication on my half. The basics of what I said are not out of order.

 

[£]

I've just had a little exchange with Magic, and I feel that this was largely a misunderstanding, and we have both apologised for my own interpretation, and his miscommunication.

-It's clear that Magic's VM was expressing an issue with members that are hyper-aggressive with their points rather than having an issue with the 20 members in favourite of the said suggestion. Maybe I could be classified as someone like that? Either way, this clarification does help matters.

-He has no problem with the people giving justifiable reasoning in the topic, either.

On seeing that exchange, it's not particularly clear that that is the case, but I feel that now this has been clarified, it would be extremely pedantic to continue on this point. I think this shouldn't be a problem in the future.

 

[El Héroe Oscuro]

I'm on my phone right now so I apoligze if this response seems a little chippy, but can someone explain to me how ecactly I was in the wrong? I cant really say that neither Magic and I were "undermining" anything which was the word that I kept seeing come up time and time again. You can already clearly see how my stance is in that discuasion thread about the subject, so its not like Im saying anything really that I havent said before. All and all I was sharing my thoughts about how I was happy with someone that we agreed on the same subject, and then went on about a point that Ive already made public about. I dont know, maybe I'm misunderstanding something. I'll gladly talk about my actions with anyone who wants to talk about it, and if anyones feelings were hurt in the process please feel free to talk to be because that obviously wasnt supposed to be the case, but I feel like this who conversation was somewhat blown up to a bigger deal then it actually entails.

 

[Meganium]

the current discussion really leaves a sour taste in my mouth

Cadance has been really helpful with explaining CSS to myself, and has done so to several members as far as I'm aware. Her entire section is so well laid out I say kudos to her.

I've only just noticed this and I don't have much time to post a really long tl;dr about it but thank you soo much! I appreciate the feedback soo so much and I'm continuing to work very hard to help you as well as everyone that needs it. Comments like this make me feel motivated. Again, thanks! <3

 

[Oryx]

I'm on my phone right now so I apoligze if this response seems a little chippy, but can someone explain to me how ecactly I was in the wrong? I cant really say that neither Magic and I were "undermining" anything which was the word that I kept seeing come up time and time again. You can already clearly see how my stance is in that discuasion thread about the subject, so its not like Im saying anything really that I havent said before. All and all I was sharing my thoughts about how I was happy with someone that we agreed on the same subject, and then went on about a point that Ive already made public about. I dont know, maybe I'm misunderstanding something. I'll gladly talk about my actions with anyone who wants to talk about it, and if anyones feelings were hurt in the process please feel free to talk to be because that obviously wasnt supposed to be the case, but I feel like this who conversation was somewhat blown up to a bigger deal then it actually entails.

Luck Hax and I both have talked to Magic and made up, but I never had a problem with anything you said. Nothing you posted sounded like an insult to anyone!

 

[Ray Maverick]

I'd like to make some comments regarding the way mods should handle people and include examples, not only from the forums but from right here in this very thread. I am especially referring to the incident reported in this thread a few pages back regarding the mess in Aethestode's Hack Studio thread - it was quite a while ago, but that shouldn't matter as the staff involved still maintain their axiom to this day, so my two cents could still be of use to them. Also, let me state that I do not wish to attack anyone with the following, nor to re-ignite the argument about Aethestode's thread, only to comment on the behavior of the mods involved, and maybe offer some advice that hopefully won't fall on pridefully shut ears, advice which can also help any mod who is reading this.

When there is a complaint placed against you as a mod, especially by multiple people at once, your first action shouldn't be to counter it. Taking it personally and replying in a defensive manner to every single argument made by the member who feels offended helps no one - your first cause shouldn't be to save your dignity (if that is what you believe you are doing) but to make things right for everyone in the most pleasant and quiet way. Arguing most of the time only serves to further agitate the one(s) who feel(s) offended, as we saw it happen in this thread a while ago. And as we can all agree on, this is a Pokemon forum, so naturally, not all of the members are adults and emotions tend to overtake rationality. What does that constitute? It constitutes long, heated and petty arguments when the party who feels wronged is struck back in such way. I would like to think that the higher stuff of this forum are capable of choosing people who can prove to be "the bigger person" as we say and show maturity.

What I mean by maturity is that perhaps you should withhold your pride and admit something is wrong, after so many people actively argue about it, and continue to argue about it after you have countered their points. Even if you are in the right, and what you did was within the rules, if people are still angry with you, something's up. I think the purpose of the moderators isn't only to keep the forums clean, but to also ensure the members hanging around in them are having fun, and certainly not disregard any problems they might voice, simply stating "they are wrong". Maybe they're not right, but they're not wrong either, because there is a problem, according to their opinion, and your job is to resolve that problem, especially if it concerns yourself personally.

I looked into Aethestode's thread and I saw a series of posts deleted by Hashtag whose explanation for deletion declared them "off-topic" and "spam"; I won't go into saying whether they should have or should have not been deleted, as it's an old matter and I'd like to keep my post on my previous topic.

I'm going to say that this matter (like all matters, in fact) should have been solved with the delicate diplomacy that it obviously lacked. Perhaps Hashtag's first step, instead of silencing them, should have been to communicate with them directly. Answer their question in a well-worded PM or VM, explain to them in a friendly manner, and you won't come off in such a bad light. It's not that hard to treat them the right way. You could even do that when stating the reason for deleting the posts, instead of remaining coldly indifferent about it.

In a related note, your personal opinion as a mod isn't appreciated by those who feel offended, so therefore you must avoid voicing it. You can state it if you want, but that's not the wise thing to do, especially if you word it "frankly" and you come off as harsh - and that's a statement directed at Livewire, with whom I've had a word about this particular matter, ages ago. If you must be harsh to get your point across, then perhaps re-think what you are about to say and re-phrase it so no feelings get hurt.