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  #1    
Old January 5th, 2017 (5:22 PM). Edited January 5th, 2017 by Trev.
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    The Fan-Made Games Section's current order is a bit weird. If you switch ROM Hacking and Game Development then it'll be a bit more organized, so that all the ROM hacking stuff is all together in one little part and then the Game Development stuff is all together in little part. Community ROM hack can probably stay at the bottom as it'll see significantly less activity.

    EDIT: Literally changed as soon as I posted this. Basically the ROM Hacking stuff should be closer to together and game development should kept together. If they're all intermixed, people could get lost very easily.
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      #2    
    Old January 5th, 2017 (5:52 PM).
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      (sorry i wrote so much!)

      hello. i was just looking at the new PC front page layout, and i wanted to ask about some of the placement choices? i thought it best to list my thoughts while you are still considering the reordering, so please don't see these as a list of complaints, but just as my two cents to hopefully ease your decision-making process. of course i invite discussion and rebuttal, should there be good reason for it <3

      1. i really think the main introductory forums for new users should be at the top of the page. i realisethat most people visit PC to engage in game-related discussion, but for me it is imperative as a new user to have clear and easy access to the rules and introduction boards. once people become more acquainted with the website, they can easily be condensed with the minimize button anyway, thereby placing the Pokemon forums on top.

      2. i quite like the horizontal display of Pokemon boards per gen! to give one suggestion; i feel perhaps it would be helpful if each got their own icon? currently (on my screen at least) they all just have the default PC icon and then their gen number written out fully, which actually threw me off momentarily cause they're also in reverse order (6-1), and i had to do a double-take to realise where Gen 7 was... this may be just me and take some getting used to, but with just a few tweaks maybe it could be made even more handy and intuitive.
      perhaps even put PGC at the top of the Pokemon forums, and then add Gen 7 in with the horizontal list?

      3. while i agree that the off-topic forums should be kept aside from the Pokémon forums, i don't believe the manner in which this was attempted now is very good... i'd prefer if all the forums currently tucked under the single "off-topic" forum instead received their own section, similar to the Create & Discover section. that way, they will remain clearly visible and separated to those who use them, while again being easily tucked away under a minimize button for those who don't. the way it is now, "Off-Topic" seems extremely cluttered, and i worry that the forums will lose significant activity as well, having been reduced to sub-forums.
      also, it seems strange to me that all these are tucked away, but the equally off-topic forum games (playground and UG) do still keep their own forums? i understand that these probably receive more traffic, though.

      keep in mind that i all other things i haven't mentioned, i approve of! it has been a while since i visited PC, specifically its homepage, but i couldn't resist at least commenting. i am not alleric to change at all, but there are some fundamentals that i feel shouldn't be tampered with.

      in a nutshell: my primary concern is that the main introductory forums, imperative for new users, are not clearly presented at the top of the page. i would argue to put them ("Community Square") up top, with the exclusion of the "Off-topic" forum, which i think would be better off as a section of its own at the bottom.
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        #3    
      Old January 5th, 2017 (6:01 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
      (sorry i wrote so much!)
      Don't feel the need to apologise! Feedback is definitely encouraged, and we appreciate your calm tone. Do note that I'm just answering this post as a guy, not necessarily as a representation of the staff team as a whole or in any "official" capacity.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
      hello. i was just looking at the new PC front page layout, and i wanted to ask about some of the placement choices? i thought it best to list my thoughts while you are still considering the reordering, so please don't see these as a list of complaints, but just as my two cents to hopefully ease your decision-making process. of course i invite discussion and rebuttal, should there be good reason for it <3

      1. i really think the main introductory forums for new users should be at the top of the page. i realisethat most people visit PC to engage in game-related discussion, but for me it is imperative as a new user to have clear and easy access to the rules and introduction boards. once people become more acquainted with the website, they can easily be condensed with the minimize button anyway, thereby placing the Pokemon forums on top.
      This was quite the contested discussion before the changes were pushed through in the staff forums and honestly I'm not sure where I personally stand on it. Ultimately though, with regards to the actually important information, the Rules, that's at the top of every page on PC in the navigation bar (at least on most styles and it should be in the upcoming UI update). That isn't to downplay the role of the introductory forums, but it's worth noting that newly registered users have a notice pinned to the top of the index which they have to manually close to hide which links them to the introductions forum, so it shouldn't be too hard to find for those who want it, and for those who just want to discuss Pokémon there are no distractions.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
      2. i quite like the horizontal display of Pokemon boards per gen! to give one suggestion; i feel perhaps it would be helpful if each got their own icon? currently (on my screen at least) they all just have the default PC icon and then their gen number written out fully, which actually threw me off momentarily cause they're also in reverse order (6-1), and i had to do a double-take to realise where Gen 7 was... this may be just me and take some getting used to, but with just a few tweaks maybe it could be made even more handy and intuitive.
      perhaps even put PGC at the top of the Pokemon forums, and then add Gen 7 in with the horizontal list?
      I feel like any aesthetic changes like this would be under the jurisdiction of the upcoming UI update which isn't really the same thing as the layout changes that just happened. I'm not involved in that though so I can't speak for whether this would be considered: personally I think it's a nice idea, though.

      For your third point I don't really have an answer as I wasn't really involved in that decision and it doesn't affect how I personally use PC either, but I'm sure others will be able to respond to you. Hope I've helped clear some things up at least, though. Thanks for your feedback!
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        #4    
      Old January 5th, 2017 (6:06 PM).
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      I'll address two of your points. I'll leave the third to the other staff.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
      1. i really think the main introductory forums for new users should be at the top of the page. i realisethat most people visit PC to engage in game-related discussion, but for me it is imperative as a new user to have clear and easy access to the rules and introduction boards. once people become more acquainted with the website, they can easily be condensed with the minimize button anyway, thereby placing the Pokemon forums on top.
      I'm happy to know you do care about Main Street. The intent was to place the Pokémon discussions at the top as people generally search the web and expect immediacy in finding what they want. The first step to registering is not, as some would believe, to post a welcome message. People want to get to the content, or ask the questions they want, or download the ROM hack they want.

      Truth is, once you, one of the not-so-significant group who wants to get a warm welcome and then eventually welcome others into the forum, have done that, your focus will divert onto the other stuff. Most new members don't really care about welcomes, and members who have warmed to PokéCommunity will generally ignore it after a while. But, if you're someone who does care about that stuff, a handy notice appears at the top of the screen telling you the sorts of things you can do. I don't think new members have anything to worry about in that regard.

      The solution to collapse those options is a step that isn't immediately obvious. Upon first glance, you'd see a million different things, and access to the Pokémon forums would require some scrolling — and even then, we believe the list of stuff available was outright overwhelming.

      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
      2. i quite like the horizontal display of Pokemon boards per gen! to give one suggestion; i feel perhaps it would be helpful if each got their own icon?
      That's happening soon!
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        #5    
      Old January 5th, 2017 (6:13 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
      (sorry i wrote so much!)
      2. i quite like the horizontal display of Pokemon boards per gen! to give one suggestion; i feel perhaps it would be helpful if each got their own icon? currently (on my screen at least) they all just have the default PC icon and then their gen number written out fully, which actually threw me off momentarily cause they're also in reverse order (6-1), and i had to do a double-take to realise where Gen 7 was... this may be just me and take some getting used to, but with just a few tweaks maybe it could be made even more handy and intuitive.
      perhaps even put PGC at the top of the Pokemon forums, and then add Gen 7 in with the horizontal list?
      Unfortunately, I must strongly disagree with making any sort of changes to the SM forum as it is. D:

      As the newest generation, I feel it only makes sense to have SM as a parent forum. I cannot speak for Pokemon Gaming Central, but having the newest generation games as the forefront and then the previous generations in order underneath makes the most sense, chronologically, at least (does this make sense?? I might be badly wording this).
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        #6    
      Old January 5th, 2017 (6:21 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
      3. while i agree that the off-topic forums should be kept aside from the Pokémon forums, i don't believe the manner in which this was attempted now is very good... i'd prefer if all the forums currently tucked under the single "off-topic" forum instead received their own section, similar to the Create & Discover section. that way, they will remain clearly visible and separated to those who use them, while again being easily tucked away under a minimize button for those who don't. the way it is now, "Off-Topic" seems extremely cluttered, and i worry that the forums will lose significant activity as well, having been reduced to sub-forums.
      also, it seems strange to me that all these are tucked away, but the equally off-topic forum games (playground and UG) do still keep their own forums? i understand that these probably receive more traffic, though.
      That was definitely a concern shared amongst the moderators of those sections once we began to discuss these changes, but we're all definitely looking to see how this all will work out. I can't speak on behalf of all of us, but I'm sure that if we do begin to have activity complications, we can probably iron out a new plan and perhaps shuffle things around only if absolutely necessary. There's probably things we can do beforehand, such as what the Pokémon section is doing with each of the generations, but I don't know if that's done yet or not, or if that's even being planned.
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        #7    
      Old January 5th, 2017 (6:24 PM).
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      Quote:
      Originally Posted by Anemone View Post
      3. while i agree that the off-topic forums should be kept aside from the Pokémon forums, i don't believe the manner in which this was attempted now is very good... i'd prefer if all the forums currently tucked under the single "off-topic" forum instead received their own section, similar to the Create & Discover section. that way, they will remain clearly visible and separated to those who use them, while again being easily tucked away under a minimize button for those who don't. the way it is now, "Off-Topic" seems extremely cluttered, and i worry that the forums will lose significant activity as well, having been reduced to sub-forums.
      There are still some kinks being worked out! It may turn out that some of the forums will end up becoming one with me the Off Topic section in order to give the place even more purpose while simultaneously reducing clutter.

      In any case, the issue of activity has definitely been noted and all involved are going to keep an eye on the sections, but I have faith that this will only help all the sections that have the good fortune to be included under the Off Topic category. Your concern is appreciated, however.

      Quote:
      also, it seems strange to me that all these are tucked away, but the equally off-topic forum games (playground and UG) do still keep their own forums? i understand that these probably receive more traffic, though.
      These are off-topic in the sense that they are game-based and operate on an entirely different level than the Off Topic section itself, it would not make sense to put them in a forum revolving around humanity and its output, which is essentially what Off Topic is.
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        #8    
      Old January 5th, 2017 (6:29 PM).
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      Also, is Adri and Marz literally going to mod every offtopic forum or is that just temporarily? I don't have any problems with them as moderators tbh, but having them control EVERY offtopic forum is ridiculous at least.
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        #9    
      Old January 5th, 2017 (6:29 PM).
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        I really like the horizontal layout for the games! I'd prefer it personally if we stacked up like...
        -> PGC
        -> SuMo
        -> horizontal line
        I feel like PGC gets lost, that's all.

        I get what y'all are saying about the new users stuff, that there are banners and quick links all over. I think, though, that those should be made more obvious- but then again, maybe at this point I just tune out the quick links bars and that. I'd like to see some feedback from newer people on that particular matter because they're more relevant than I am on that lmao.

        The main thing I really don't much like is how everything is positioned under Treehouse. The divide I'd rather have seen would have been

        -> Treehouse
        -- Mall?
        -- VIP
        -- Roundtable
        -- New Leaf
        -> General Entertainment
        -- Video Games
        -- Anime & Manga
        -- Lab?

        im kind of up in the air on Lab and personally I would prefer the Mall to be merged back into Treehouse, but that's not particularly relevant here. :P But I would prefer GE to be there to house a few things and keep the look of TT and its subforums tidier, you know?
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          #10    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (6:32 PM).
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        Can you do to the off-topic sections what you did to the Pokemon generations sections but include the most recently posted-in thread underneath each?
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          #11    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (6:35 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Salzorrah View Post
        Also, is Adri and Marz literally going to mod every offtopic forum or is that just temporarily? I don't have any problems with them as moderators tbh, but having them control EVERY offtopic forum is ridiculous at least.
        I believe that is simply an issue with the moderator permissions. That should be rectified in the next bit once everything else is ironed out and fixed.
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          #12    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (6:59 PM).
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        They will not always be the mods there. Temporary.

        As for why Off-Topic is how it is, I can just quote admin response from the staff thread on this.

        Quote:
        Optimistically we aim for the Offtopic area to become and self-evolve into a singular, more-involved, and more engaged community. Right now there's a perception that the Treehouse is seen as a spamfest/****post zone, which McCree and Frieza are actively working to alter. Part of putting these forums as subforums is to draw more people to 1) the main Offtopic area, 2) other offtopic areas, and 3) to grow them as a community again, rather than a pile of random forums with little connectivity. Treehouse has a bounty of visitors who never go elsewhere as well as a content problem, while the other offtopic areas have a bounty of content but fewer visitors. Putting them together as a hub of offtopic discussion aims to benefit each in kind with an increase in traffic AND more fluid, less thin content.

        In the same vein, as we see the dynamics and community of Offtopic change or grow, we can also be dynamic in shaping what subforums exist underneath it a la Forum Frontier. If we see a huge rise of a topic and decide to try out a subforum, we can more dynamically engage the community without resorting to poorly considered Frontier areas that have more often than not failed.

        Treehouse will be the main Offtopic area, while its subforums are there as defined topical zones that are popular and prevalent enough to organizationally warrant separation. Sort of akin to a city (Treehouse) and its districts (subforums). We want to see the cultures of them merge to a degree while also keeping the organizational benefit of them being separate.
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          #13    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:02 PM). Edited January 5th, 2017 by Pia Carrot.
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        Why would you put introductions at the bottom of the page? Literally makes zero sense when you have people deciding to make this their very first forum board and it should be the first thing they see to familiarize themselves.

        And really, merging Game Dev with ROM Hacking.

        Sorry, I ran a rom hack board for years and we did this. It caused even more confusion than there already is with the difference between hacks and fangames.

        It might look nice to some of you guys but seriously shafting two very different communities together is just asking for trouble.

        /rant

        @Goku :^) no title now shouldnt be an issue. if I have to explain my points more thoroughly please just let me know
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          #14    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:07 PM).
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        Why is introductions at the bottom?
        Quote:
        Overall we feel location has little to do with Meet & Greet's activity. People who want to introduce themselves will do so regardless of location (and Jake is working on a new member onboarding page which will direct them to M&G as well). Unfortunately past their introduction, M&G is not relevant to most members. Currently there are few active regular greeters aside from the staff, while Treehouse is at the bottom and has the most active regulars of any forum on PC. Location clearly isn't hurting that area AND being much closer to Treehouse may help increase traffic in M&G as well by simply being right next to such an active hub.

        The same response applies for City Hall. The only time members need to go there is if they have a question, feedback, or issue. With such a shortened index, it will be immediately more available to them and they will be able to quickly post what they need. If you look at other sites, BMGf has a singular intro and help area. Serebii has only one thread for all forum questions. Smogon has a single thread for questions/suggestions and no intro area at all.

        We feel the new location will be more beneficial overall for Feedback and Meet & Greet.
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        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:11 PM).
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        Guys, all this is just a work in progress. What y'all see is not the final product.

        Although quite honestly I am peeved the M&G section is at the bottom but if there is something being worked on for that section alone, then by all means. xD
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          #16    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:11 PM).
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        I'm not as concerned about the intro changes as I am the fangame board changes (which yes until you have these new "features" added is dumb bc new members generally do not use bulletin posts to navigate).

        I don't understand who thought the merging of those boards was a good idea. Anyone who has been active in those forums the last, idk, 7 years would know people constantly confuse the two as it was, and game dev wasnt even close to the RH boards. Needs more clarification or, yknow, just give game dev its own board.
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        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:12 PM).
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        Additionally, there's a large notice at the top of the forum for new members that says:

        Quote:
        Hey there, {username}, it looks like you're a new member here on PokéCommunity. If you're unsure of where to start (don't worry, we know PC can be a bit intimidating), here are some good places to begin:

        - Have you created an introduction thread yet? Check out the Main Street forum and introduce yourself to fellow members here on PC.
        - The rules of the forum. As a member of PokéCommunity, we expect you to read and understand them (they apply to all posts you make.)
        - The frequently asked questions page. If you have any questions, you can find a lot of information there. If you're still unsure about something after reading the FAQ, you're always welcome to posting a new thread in the City Hall forum.
        - If you want an easier time navigating through the forums, why not sign up to have a more experienced user guide you around the forums at our tourist office? Not only will you have an easier time getting around the forum with a personal guide, but you'll also make a very special friend!

        Our community has a ton of different sections, take a look around and explore to find the ones you like best.
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          #18    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:14 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Pia Carrot View Post
        I'm not as concerned about the intro changes as I am the fangame board changes (which yes until you have these new "features" added is dumb bc new members generally do not use bulletin posts to navigate).

        I don't understand who thought the merging of those boards was a good idea. Anyone who has been active in those forums the last, idk, 7 years would know people constantly confuse the two as it was, and game dev wasnt even close to the RH boards. Needs more clarification or, yknow, just give game dev its own board.
        I generally consider people capable of making or playing ROM hacks or custom games at least semi-competent at navigating the internet...? Also what does it matter if it's a game made from scratch or a hack of a ROM? To the end user it's kinda the same isn't it?

        Anyway it was requested by the mods of that section and we decided it looked nice, and trusted their judgement. If it doesn't work out things can, of course, be adjusted. We're trying it this way for now.
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          #19    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:15 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Rick_Sanchez View Post
        Additionally, there's a large notice at the top of the forum for new members that says:
        New members tend to skim over the notices, though. Just an observation on my part since I've ran a forum similar to PC before over the course of 3 years.
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          #20    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:18 PM).
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        Quote:
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        New members tend to skim over the notices, though.
        New members tend to skim over the welcomes forum, though.
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          #21    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:19 PM).
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        Quote:
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        New members tend to skim over the notices, though. Just an observation on my part since I've ran a forum similar to PC before over the course of 3 years.
        We're going to make it more noticeable with some nice art from Sylphiel. If they miss that then I don't think any placement of the forum is going to catch their attention.
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          #22    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:19 PM).
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        Seeing Video Games on the very bottom as a subforum makes me very sad ):

        Subsequent dip in activity really bothers me.
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          #23    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:20 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Hiroshi Sotomura View Post
        New members tend to skim over the welcomes forum, though.
        ^ I mentioned this in the staff thread but didn't get a reply so moving it here, but can we use data like heatmaps to verify these things? I don't think big changes to UI/UX should just be made based on assumptions or our thoughts, but should start with data.
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          #24    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:21 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by El Héroe Oscuro View Post
        Seeing Video Games on the bottom as a subforum makes me very sad ):
        I've already noticed topics in there more than I ever have before and believe I'll be posting it more than I ever did while it was randomly lost in the shuffle of the abyss above.
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          #25    
        Old January 5th, 2017 (7:22 PM).
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        Quote:
        Originally Posted by Pia Carrot View Post
        New members tend to skim over the notices, though. Just an observation on my part since I've ran a forum similar to PC before over the course of 3 years.
        New members do read the notice here, though. o:

        I had my fair share of seeing introduction posts over the years where new members claim that they were send to the board because of it. But maybe if it was more noticeable, that can help.
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