Suggestion: I dislike the "like" button

[Blah]

Hi, today I thought I'd bring up a potentially unpopular opinion regarding the post liking system.
I think the main perk of our like system is that you don't really need to post anything, and instead you can press the button to show approval. It's great in the sense it'd save a forum goer a couple of minutes, and removes the need to write a well structured post on what they think about the OP's idea/content and why they agree/like it. Some people just don't have the time, or don't want to type that much. Others use the like button as a pat on the back, or a gesture of approval. In the end, it's a quick way of saying "good job", while maybe slightly lowering potential nonconstructive spam posts.

I mainly dislike it because I think it's one of the bigger reasons posting in the ROM hacking section and a couple other sections have slowed down. In RH, and even the art section, the OP ends up double/triple posting (sometimes even more in the case of less popular projects) because people much prefer just hitting the like button rather than making a post. It's kind of lazy, and I'd rather have a nice post telling me about things which can use improvement or even a nice complement rather than the like notification. Recently, I've found myself using the like button instead of actually posting too, and I don't think it's very healthy for forum post activity. Maybe places similar to profile pages & facebook posts do well with a like system, but general discussions forums, I feel like it takes some content away from the discussion.

I'm in large doubt that the like button will ever go away, but that's my opinion of it atleast. Also if we're keeping the like button, can we have a dislike button? My face twitches whenever I see someone like their own post, and I feel the need to dislike their post to bring back the equilibrium. I'd also love to dislike poorly thought out posts and posts for people I don't like. They can even get a nice notification about it, "FBI has disliked your post, ha!". The only reason I can see this being a bad idea is because it would instigate drama amongst young children and immature adults. Maybe we can use a less sensitive notification, like, "FBI thinks your post isn't as good as it could be. But don't worry, your post is still OK. Have a good day!". OK, I was joking about the dislike button (I still kinda want it). But, maybe consider disabling the like button for specific discussion forums and feedback forums like Art and ROM hacking. The OPs in those forums are really looking for kind motivation from their peers or some criticism about their work. Especially in discussion tagged threads.

I don't think the like button is a horrible idea; imo, just not well placed in some sections.

 

[Mab]

I have to agree that for some specific forums it does seem to slow down discussion. I just posted a thread in Progressing Games and would have much preferred 7 comments telling me the game looks good and listing ideas, thoughts or potential problems, rather than 7 notifications of "likes".

 

[Her]

Trust me, I'd also support a dislike button and have voiced that support in the past, but there's no way the population here could handle such a thing happening. Those who remember 'negrep' tend to do so with distaste and those who came after tend to find such an option rather appalling. Rioting in the streets and City Hall inundated with threads about the subject and what not. I think it's a perfectly fair option but ultimately not one that is logistically worth it.

And honey, pretty much every other social media medium on the internet has a like button or something under a different name. It works. If people have something to say afterwards, they'll say it. Certainly seems to be the case in the rest of the forum. Most certainly for the rest of the internet. It's the people themselves who have to be instigated into posting, some third party outside force is not the issue here.

 

[Arylett Charnoa]

Honestly, if it weren't for a like button, nobody would know what I think of anything period. I press it when I just don't have very much substantial to say. Otherwise, I don't say it at all. It's my replacement for "That's awesome!" or "I agree!" It's used to show your support. I mean, those sorts of posts is kind of useless clutter and I'd rather someone press the like button on my content than quote it and say that. If you're going to post, then make it count. That's my motto.

To me, I see it as an addition on top of posting. Forums anyway aren't really as fluid for back and forth discussion like chat rooms or more live types of communication, so their activity is always going to be slower. Perhaps some people are using the like button to replace posting, but if they were going to make a post in the first place, then their post was not likely to be substantial anyway. It's just that it's far more difficult to say why you like something than why you dislike it, I've found. If we like things, it tends to just be a more primal, inexplicable feeling.

If I want to or rather, am able to say something that is positive in a elaborate way, then I just type it up. A like button can't express more complex feelings. Besides all that, it allows people who may be more reluctant to post like me an opportunity to express themselves in a small, non-time investing way. It adds a little bit of cheer and happiness to peoples' lives. I like pressing it, and I enjoy receiving likes. Art forums in particular, or places to receive feedback are never all that active in the first place. Most people don't know how to give positive feedback as I've said. The like button is good to facilitate that for them. I'd rather they press it then not say anything at all, because they don't know what to say or how to say it.

Also, I don't support a dislike button. As I recall someone saying the last time that thread was made, it's basically like slapping someone on the face and not giving them any reason to why. Whilst you can get away with not saying why you like things, disliking is negative and requires more constructive criticism than just a button that's ripe for drama and exploitation of trolls. If someone dislikes something I said, I don't want a robot telling me that because they pressed a button. I want them telling it to my face, directly, and telling me why. Negative opinions require more extensive communication. Positive opinions are much harder to express beyond short statements and words that don't say very much. Liking helps spread more positivity that wouldn't otherwise be spread.

Besides, people here are VERY stingy with the like button. On other forums and Facebook, I receive far more likes for posts and see them on a variety of posts.

Also, I do agree that liking your own post shouldn't be a thing. That should be outright removed though rather than adding a dislike button.

 

[Blah]

And honey, pretty much every other social media medium on the internet has a like button or something under a different name. It works. If people have something to say afterwards, they'll say it. Certainly seems to be the case in the rest of the forum. Most certainly for the rest of the internet. It's the people themselves who have to be instigated into posting, some third party outside force is not the issue here.

Wow, only my 3rd grade teacher called me honey before :P
So about the comments about, "people just wouldn't post if they didn't want to", while I partially agree, some years ago (the like button wasn't even available on all skins iirc) most people would not use the like button. Instead they posted quite frequently.

So why has the posting speed in some of these subforums dropped substantially? I'd have to be either the like button, or overall population decrease. I'm not sure about all the other sections, but ROM hacking still gets plenty of visitors (it's easily the biggest and most popular section on PC). At the same time I only see about 15 new posts everyday. Most of the activity seems to be post liking. I don't have any form of statistics to back up my suspicions, unfortunately, which is why I'm not so direct about it. But without a doubt, previously there was a new post every few minutes. Now most of the post creation happens when someone is asking a question in the quick questions thread or beginner's lounge.

Honestly, if it weren't for a like button, nobody would know what I think of anything period. I press it when I just don't have very much substantial to say. Otherwise, I don't say it at all. It's my replacement for "That's awesome!" or "I agree!" It's used to show your support. I mean, those sorts of posts is kind of useless clutter and I'd rather someone press the like button on my content than quote it and say that. If you're going to post, then make it count. That's my motto.

About this, they'd be able to post to tell you about how they felt, if it were important to them. Alternatively, polls also exist. I don't exactly agree with your opinion on the, "I'd rather have likes than posts". It's hard to keep this discussion objective, because I realize some people prefer different things. Perhaps we can allow the OP to disable or enable post likes.
The content of your post talking about explaining your feelings about the post are not what I'm looking to have people post more about. I was leaning more towards comments yielding positive results to the OP. Maybe not, "This is a cool idea", and moreso, "The story about the protagonist's past was very well written. Excellent suspense". Both are essentially praising our wouldbe poster's idea, but one is specifically praising the poster's writing style and presentation. It's this sort of positive feedback that motivates people, or so I feel.

Anyways, I'm not trying to say likes are bad and should be removed. I'm saying that in discussion or creation oriented threads/sections it should be an option to disable them, as most artists and content creators prefer and enjoy seeing comments about their content. If you do both, then great. I'm once again, not very versed in all sections of the forums. I'm mainly a ROM hacker, and this is an issue I find particularly impactful in this section. I also enjoy peaking at the art section, seeing the gamedev section, and quality posting in the tree house section :^)

PS: The dislike button was a joke, as I stated in the main post. Please don't get mad at me :D

 

[Desinishon]

Yup! I was thinking same thing( not like or dislike thing). People these days try to avoid posting. You can say same thing about playground. If you post a game of one word (For example: Yum or yuck game ) it become quite popular and it get a large no. of posting but if you post a game which contain a two or three line posting, nobody is going to post there. I know these games are for fun but still.

 

[Winter]

Removing the like feature is not going to help forum activity in any way. I'd rather see likes than insubstantial comments like "i like it", "yaass", "it looks great", etc. Content creation forums already suffer from the lack of constructive reviewing that it wants to cut down on the mindless spam of short simple comments that don't go anywhere beyond "I like/dislike it". If you want simple positive feedback which lacks construction, then I'm sorry, you're just immature and not helping yourself improve. (But ironically, if you just want simplistic comments, likes already do a perfect job of satisfying that goal.)

Also, disliking to achieve equilibrium, what? What??

 

[Pebbles]

i do not mind a like button but i know from experience , on some forums having a dislike button as well..... DEAR GOD, it can make your forum very unpleasant because...
i been on a forum for a while not long ago and it was the worst there
they had a dislike button and people abused it all the time - because most people there are imature little brats around the age of 14/15 or so...
and cause of that people starting fighting constantly and b!tching over such stupid sh!t
that forum is such a mess mainly because of that and i do not get it why the forum still has it
boy am i glad i quit using that forum:|

anyhow...
i know a dislike button doesn't have to be a problem on a forum, especially if most people around the forum are adults and mature enough not to abuse it etc
BUT in my opinion
there is never no need for it, at least not on a forum
because it is better to keep it friendly .... not having a dislike button is a simple way to avoid the trouble of people thinking more easily that they are hated etc.​

 

[Blah]

Removing the like feature is not going to help forum activity in any way. I'd rather see likes than insubstantial comments like "i like it", "yaass", "it looks great", etc. Content creation forums already suffer from the lack of constructive reviewing that it wants to cut down on the mindless spam of short simple comments that don't go anywhere beyond "I like/dislike it". If you want simple positive feedback which lacks construction, then I'm sorry, you're just immature and not helping yourself improve. (But ironically, if you just want simplistic comments, likes already do a perfect job of satisfying that goal.)

Also, disliking to achieve equilibrium, what? What??

Hi there. I get the feeling you didn't either read my comment fully, skimmed over most of it, or are ignoring some of it. I've mentioned in a previous post here the objective of this suggestion isn't to receive a simple woo, as some have gotten to perceive it. Generally, these sub forums have rules against spam & silly comments like the ones you've mentioned, which prevent such problems from arising. If it's not meaningful, it's spam. I think we see this style of commenting regardless of the like button's presence.

If you want simple positive feedback which lacks construction, then I'm sorry, you're just immature and not helping yourself improve.

I also disagree with this. In my previous post I gave an example of a potential comment which lacked criticism, but outlined positive aspects of someone's creation. I think this sort of post lets the OP know what has been done well, so that they can continue doing that part well. Immaturity and enjoying compliments aren't correlated in any way, as far as I know. Otherwise, I'm a very immature person, because I love compliments. That said, I'm not considering getting people to mindlessly praise eachother, nor am I looking for increased spam. I'm just wanting to see more posts encouraging OPs and more posts talking about the content OPs are creating. Personally, I find a lot of motivation from reading people's thoughts and opinions, rather than seeing page likes. I'm currently sitting at 767 post likes (maybe not a lot), but I'd much prefer those likes had been comments/opinions which I could've read/responded to. It promotes meaningful discussion. If someone posted, "Hey, I like your art style", and artist can ask what parts they liked, or spark further discussion. In the end, I feel like these forums should be looking to enable healthy discussion, and I don' t think the like button contributes to that goal. In some forums, yeah the like button is nice, but others, not so much.

Also, disliking to achieve equilibrium, what? What??

Sorry, this was a joke. I had mentioned so in both of my previous posts in this thread ^^

i do not mind a like button but i know from experience , on some forums having a dislike button as well..... DEAR GOD, it can make your forum very unpleasant because...
i been on a forum for a while not long ago and it was the worst there
they had a dislike button and people abused it all the time - because most people there are imature little brats around the age of 14/15 or so...
and cause of that people starting fighting constantly and b!tching over such stupid sh!t
that forum is such a mess mainly because of that and i do not get it why the forum still has it
boy am i glad i quit using that forum:|

anyhow...
i know a dislike button doesn't have to be a problem on a forum, especially if most people around the forum are adults and mature enough not to abuse it etc
BUT in my opinion
there is never no need for it, at least not on a forum
because it is better to keep it friendly .... not having a dislike button is a simple way to avoid the trouble of people thinking more easily that they are hated etc.​

no...noooooo! The dislike button was intended as a joke. I've only mentioned it to be 30 times so far. I guess it's my fault for trying to make jokes on a serious topic, but that's just my nature. I think your post summarizes well why the dislike button would be bad, we cannot guarantee people behaving maturely after having been notified that their idea wasn't liked :D


--
Take a look at the ROM hacking Daily Chit Chat thread. It's literally someone posting an idea every who weeks, then others like their post. Two weeks later, we have a new post to like. Only in rare cases where people are personally invested do you see the like button used less, and instead comments are posted.

I like what JohnnyMustang had to say on the topic. There aren't any statistics available (for me at least, not sure about the higher staff) to pinpoint the like button as the reason why activity has gone down. I can only suspect the like button because that's the most obvious alternative source of "feedback" which surpasses posting almost everywhere. We can't be sure, and until someone can bring in statistical evidence, anything otherwise can't be held as objective.

REMINDER: Dislike button is a joke guys. Sorry, please direct conversation to the "like" button instead :P

 

[El Héroe Oscuro]

Take a look at the ROM hacking Daily Chit Chat thread. It's literally someone posting an idea every who weeks, then others like their post. Two weeks later, we have a new post to like. Only in rare cases where people are personally invested do you see the like button used less, and instead comments are posted.

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - cause this is literally the first time I've walked into the ROM Hacking section lol - but are you referring to this thread (which I believe is the ROM Hack DCC:


https://www.pokecommunity.com/posts/9150050/


Reason why I ask is cause I've just skimmed through the last couple of pages and not only has there been little to no likes going on, but there has been actual discussion and conversation taking place. Again, maybe I'm getting this confused with a different thread/you referenced the wrong thread, but in my mind this DCC actually has had some pretty fluid conversation(s) going on.

 

[Blah]

Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong - cause this is literally the first time I've walked into the ROM Hacking section lol - but are you referring to this thread (which I believe is the ROM Hack DCC:


https://www.pokecommunity.com/posts/9150050/


Reason why I ask is cause I've just skimmed through the last couple of pages and not only has there been little to no likes going on, but there has been actual discussion and conversation taking place. Again, maybe I'm getting this confused with a different thread/you referenced the wrong thread, but in my mind this DCC actually has had some pretty fluid conversation(s) going on.

Welp, you got me. The DCC was a horrible example. That thread is mostly inactive. Pick your favourite tutorial thread or R&D thread. It'll have the aforementioned problem. Popular threads tend to be game threads where people are asking for releases/anticipating playing releases and ROM base threads where people are wanting ROM bases. Other places normally get the post-like treatment instead.

Maybe a potential solution would be meaningful milestone awards. Every 1000 posts or something, you get a nice emblem. I don't know.

 

[Winter]

I also disagree with this. In my previous post I gave an example of a potential comment which lacked criticism, but outlined positive aspects of someone's creation. I think this sort of post lets the OP know what has been done well, so that they can continue doing that part well. Immaturity and enjoying compliments aren't correlated in any way, as far as I know. Otherwise, I'm a very immature person, because I love compliments. That said, I'm not considering getting people to mindlessly praise eachother, nor am I looking for increased spam. I'm just wanting to see more posts encouraging OPs and more posts talking about the content OPs are creating.

And I'm saying that I don't see how the like feature affects that. If people are already using likes to express because they can't be bothered to make a fully thought out posts, how will removing that one bridge of communication between the creator and the audience actually enhance interaction? There are more effective ways of achieving what you desire such as rewarding those who make the effort to review the works of users through emblems etc (this has been done in places such as FF&W etc iirc)

Personally, I find a lot of motivation from reading people's thoughts and opinions, rather than seeing page likes. I'm currently sitting at 767 post likes (maybe not a lot), but I'd much prefer those likes had been comments/opinions which I could've read/responded to. It promotes meaningful discussion. If someone posted, "Hey, I like your art style", and artist can ask what parts they liked, or spark further discussion. In the end, I feel like these forums should be looking to enable healthy discussion, and I don' t think the like button contributes to that goal. In some forums, yeah the like button is nice, but others, not so much.

Unfortunately your example further proves my point of non-constructive criticism. If I, as a content creator, have to ask the reviewer where my strengths and weaknesses are, the reviewer clearly has failed in their job. Ambiguity does not help in any way and sure it may spark discussion but you are assuming the reviewer would be getting back to me. But if the reviewer decides to merely drop something so vague as to be meaningless as "I like your art style", it obviously shows that they may not be that invested or motivated in helping you.

 

[Blah]

And I'm saying that I don't see how the like feature affects that. If people are already using likes to express because they can't be bothered to make a fully thought out posts, how will removing that one bridge of communication between the creator and the audience actually enhance interaction?

Well, how about during the time frame the like button was not enabled in most skins? Back then no one used it, ROM hacking saw a plethora of activity and meaningful discussion. Infact, it was filled with it, so much so, that the scrapbox subforum was proving impossible to feasibly moderate, and was removed. The removal of the like button won't just stop people from posting, it's lack of existence in the past certainly didn't.

There are more effective ways of achieving what you desire such as rewarding those who make the effort to review the works of users through emblems etc (this has been done in places such as FF&W etc iirc)

This is something which I think is a good idea. Perhaps removing the like button would serve as a potential bandaid solution, if anything, but there is no solid connection between the like button and surging issue of inactivity in these sections. I'd be happy if they considered awarding quality posters, or having other incentives to making well written posts.

Unfortunately your example further proves my point of non-constructive criticism. If I, as a content creator, have to ask the reviewer where my strengths and weaknesses are, the reviewer clearly has failed in their job. Ambiguity does not help in any way and sure it may spark discussion but you are assuming the reviewer would be getting back to me. But if the reviewer decides to merely drop something so vague as to be meaningless as "I like your art style", it obviously shows that they may not be that invested or motivated in helping you.

Well, sometimes I make posts like this if I'm unable to contribute meaningful criticism. If I see a piece of art I like, I'll let the user know and tell them to keep up the great work. This mostly stems from my lack of knowledge on the subject. I can't tell the OP, specifically what's making it as great as it is. It could stem from how they sketched it, angles, coloring, postion and a multitude of other possible areas I'm not sure of. If they asked me a follow up question, "Did you think the color of the foreground is appropriate here?" or something similar, I could tell them that specifically, while not being an expert. Anyways, I'm arguing that not all comments need to be deeply informed and constructive to yield potential aid to someone. Either through motivation or other means.

While the reviewer has no obligations of replying back or answering, I'd assume someone who made a post instead of liking was somewhat more interested in your work. That's how I view it at least. Also there's no real point here to be made, honestly. It's a conflict of opinions. You believe posts like the one I mentioned are poor and shouldn't be used, and I believe they're good practice. It's a subjective opinion in the end.

I do understand that there is a lack of direct connection between the like button & general activity. So if that's what we can derive from statistical evidence, then the idea of quality post encouragement is something I'd look forward to seeing.

 

[Logan]

I wouldn't mind seeing it removed for ROM Hacking (and maybe other forums) but I really don't think that it's the cause of dwindling activity.

 

[Blah]

I wouldn't mind seeing the button removed in forums where encouragement and feedback should be encouraged more-so than just hitting a button. Like ROM Hacking, Art & Design, Fanfiction ect. I definitely wouldn't be fond of seeing it disappear completely because I think it's a great way to quickly approve of something without taking your time to make an unnecessary short post. All in favour of seeing it disappear in our creative sections though.

This is my thoughts on it as well. I think a like button is very appropriate for certain threads in the tree house and such. What are your thoughts on providing benefits for quality posts? I notice that WAH gives out usertitle tags, others have a reputation system ect. Maybe something like that would be a good alternative solution.

I wouldn't mind seeing it removed for ROM Hacking (and maybe other forums) but I really don't think that it's the cause of dwindling activity.

I agree that it's probably not the only reason for lack of activity. In general, the section has slowed down quite a bit in terms of quantity outputted. But I certainly think the like button isn't helping the section.

 

[El Héroe Oscuro]

I wouldn't mind seeing the button removed in forums where encouragement and feedback should be encouraged more-so than just hitting a button. Like ROM Hacking, Art & Design, Fanfiction ect. I definitely wouldn't be fond of seeing it disappear completely because I think it's a great way to quickly approve of something without taking your time to make an unnecessary short post. All in favour of seeing it disappear in our creative sections though.

But what is going to stop a user from just looking at a post and thinking "oh that's cool" and not post about it if the "like" feature is removed? No response is worse than a minimal response like a "like." Regardless of whether or not the "like" feature is in place, I feel that whether or not a user is going to post/comment/discuss about an entity will be dependant on that person's mindset alone. I really don't believe that the "like" feature has any kind of effect on discussion based practices.

If you really want to seek further critque when a like is in place, contact that user for a further explanation if needed. Is that a little extreme? Maybe. But I equate this "like-and-go" phenomeneon with the "post-and-go" phenomenon that is generally brought up here every now and then; if you really want to have further discussions or feedback/encouragement with said person, then you ultimately need to take the initative to either VM/PM "like-and-go" users and/or directly quote "post-and-go" users.

Whether or not the "like" feature is in place isn't going to affect the advancement of discussions. It's much more complicated than that in my opinion.

 

[Auticorn]

I personally like it. The reason is also because I'm not a social person. I don't always know what to say at times. Then again, I don't really set foot in the rom-hacking forums either, so I'm not too aware of this issue. I think a lot of people do use it as a way of being overly lazy. I use it in threads that aren't open for discussion and such as well.

Also, we had a rep system in the past, and if I recall... it was abused heavily. A lot of people were using it to bully others, especially n00bs who spoke out or did something wrong. I doubt it's something PC will be putting in any time soon. :/ I've been here since 2004. I was there when the rep system nearly destroyed PC.

 

[Alex]

I don't think the Like button is such a big deal. Definitely don't think it's a conversation killer. Sometimes it's simply easier to hit Like instead of type out a response with no more substance than "I like this!"

Plus, it encourages great muk posts in The Treehouse. ;)

 

[Hyzenthlay]

While I'm not an active visitor of ROM Hacking, FF&W, A&D etc., I wouldn't be against removing the like button in those sections. In my opinion, it could potentially stimulate users into writing up an actual post, well-constructed or otherwise, rather than simply 'liking' someone else's and running off. It doesn't matter if it's a quick, "This is awesome, keep up the good work" or an elaborate constructive criticism, because either of those things are going to motivate the OP, be it a writer, artist or ROM hacker, in a positive way.

Let's say I put forward a fan fiction on the forum. Personally, I would rather log in to find others have left a positive (or politely negative) response to my work, rather than receive a bunch of likes with nowhere to go on. But as some of those above have said, maybe one doesn't have the knowledge needed to properly critique another's creation and thus feels reluctant to comment. That shouldn't be a problem in my eyes—you don't have to be an expert to tell someone how much you've loved what they've done!

If the like button were to be removed in said sections and I read a post thinking, "Wow, I totally agree/like this" but lacked the option to 'like' it, I would most probably be more inclined to tell that person in actual words. Those sections deserve such feedback, unlike areas meant for light banter and fun, where there should by all means be a like button.

I have an idea, actually—what do you guys think of removing the like button in the forums that encourage serious discussion/feedback and increasing the number of characters required to post? Unless that's already a thing?

Also, I realise that FBI was joking, but a dislike button would bring in a huge income of negativity to the forums. o_o;

 

[DizzyEgg]

Tbh I like the idea of dislikes, it'd certainly invoke lots of posts.(and occasional drama) Like, the OP would ask 'why did you dislike my post' and the poster would answer 'because I don't think you did that properly, if I were you, I'd....'.