Suggestion: >tfw rules

[DRCM]

I know i've only had an account for a day, and I know i have no right to suggest anything, especially this. But this.

Lots, if not a majority of forums have a section where most of the rules don't apply. Smogon has Firebot, Evreething has Utopia; you know what I mean, right? A place where most of the rules don't apply. You need a place like that.

No forum is fun without its fair share of drama. You guys have a great thing going here, you really do, but where's the excitement (apart from ORAS)? Where's the chaos? You don't have any.

Of course, there's have to be some form of safeguard. You'd have to keep it close to the bottom of the page, and keep it invisible to guests, and maybe make people have to join a user group to get access.

However you do it, please do it. It would make things more exciting/interesting.

(inb4 "no")

(also, if there's a place on this site that's exactly like what i just described then i obviously haven't been on here long enough. tell me if there is, please.)

 

[Klippy]

I know i've only had an account for a day, and I know i have no right to suggest anything, especially this. But this.

Lots, if not a majority of forums have a section where most of the rules don't apply. Smogon has Firebot, Evreething has Utopia; you know what I mean, right? A place where you shouldn't go if you can't handle being insulted, and where most of the rules (e.g. no trolling) don't apply. A place where people go to vent their anger on people younger and more butthurt than them, with no penalty whatsoever. You need a place like that.

No forum is fun without its fair share of drama. You guys have a great thing going here, you really do, but where's the excitement (apart from ORAS)? Where's the chaos? You don't have any.

Of course, there's have to be some form of safeguard. You'd have to keep it close to the bottom of the page, and keep it invisible to guests, and maybe make people have to join a user group to get access.

However you do it, please do it. It would make things more exciting/interesting.

(inb4 "no")

(also, if there's a place on this site that's exactly like what i just described then i obviously haven't been on here long enough. tell me if there is, please.)

We have tried this before in a section called "Thunderdome" and it does not work. We aren't interested in promoting drama, intimidation, or bullying.

PC is a forum intended to be enjoyed by people of all ages (13 and over) and to be family-friendly. We don't need chaos. There's plenty of excitement in the forums and plenty of content that can be enjoyed by any age group; you'll need to find it yourself.

If you're looking for a more detail-oriented area, go to Discussions & Debates. There's content in there geared to more adult discussions. If you're looking for more than that, then I advise you to find a different forum because we ain't about that life.

 

[DRCM]

We have tried this before in a section called "Thunderdome" and it does not work. We aren't interested in promoting drama, intimidation, or bullying.

PC is a forum intended to be enjoyed by people of all ages (13 and over) and to be family-friendly. We don't need chaos. There's plenty of excitement in the forums and plenty of content that can be enjoyed by any age group; you'll need to find it yourself.

If you're looking for a more detail-oriented area, go to Discussions & Debates. There's content in there geared to more adult discussions. If you're looking for more than that, then I advise you to find a different forum because we ain't about that life.

That's fair enough. If you've tried it and it doesn't work, I get that. It's a bit disappointing, but I know that sort of this doesn't work for all forums. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Nihilego]

I actually really like this idea in principle and have been half-considering the idea for a while but I have some very serious reservations about it having read your post - primarily that, in your experience, it's "A place where people go to vent their anger on people younger and more butthurt than them, with no penalty whatsoever". That, to me, sounds like an objectively bad idea. A section with the intention to facilitate that sort of thing with absolutely nothing being done about it is not something that I want on here and if that's really all that your proposal would bring then I'm not interested.

However I have for a while now been interested in the idea of a section with no rules, no requirements, nothing like that. I know that I am one of a number of people who feel that PC pretty much needs to chill out, simply put. I often feel like there's this sort of unspoken 'standard' that needs to be met here and it's good on one hand in that we get overall pretty decent quality posts, but on the other... I feel it really, really stifles interaction between members. I get the feeling that people are almost afraid to talk to each other in threads half the time or just have a good laugh from fear of the great spamhammer descending upon them for straying slightly off the topic, and that's... really not conducive to a tight-knit, well-functioning community.

I wrote a while back on a similar conversational issue in General Chat, probably our forum closest to what you've described, DRCM. It wasn't exactly what you were describing (that there isn't enough drama...?) but certainly there was an issue identified with stagnation and a lot of thoughts from that thread looked towards tightness on rules and moderation and whatnot. This doesn't for a second mean that I think that what I'm describing here is a fault of the moderators, but rather, I feel like there's this deep-rooted belief in PC that anything unusual or original or off-topic in some way has a chance of getting you in trouble and is therefore best avoided.

It's this that sorta leads me to wonder if I was taking the wrong approach back there. General Chat, and... well, PC as a whole, has an already-established community and hivemind of sorts that's hard to change within a section. Something like what you described, a section where there are no rules or regulations or topics (other than "not pokémon" i suppose) could be interesting. I'd hope that it'd work as a sort of generally more laid-back, fun, chilled area where people get to know each other rather than posting on a topic. While I won't say too much on the structure of the staff forums, the Staff Hangout (basically a social area for staff - not unlike the supporters' VIP forum, for those who can access it) runs very much in the way that I just described and... there's no major drama, venting anger or generally... what, bluntly, sounds like bullying the way you put it in there.

The difference is amazing and I'd be up for the idea of trying some sort of similar thing for the entire forum to just hang out a bit in. No topics for posting, standards on post quality, requirements to stay on-topic, whatever. Just loose, free conversation. Our ideas differ when it comes to what we see the purpose of such a forum as being, sure, but the thing itself is the same (minus the fact that I'd want at least some enforcement of the disrespect rules B|) and I feel like it'd be interesting to see what happens when we essentially give PC an empty forum and say "go wild". It'd be a cool social experiment if nothing else, haha.

tl;dr +1 but for different purposes.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

Oh, this would be great! It'd knock some sense into me, and would be a great place to push my weight around in. As far as I understood the Thunderdome, I didn't think it was a free-for-all, though I could be wrong. If any of you are part of the Linus Tech Tips forums, think of the fun in Off-topic. Posting there (and in mac threads) is a blast.


Pleeeeeeeaaaaaaassssssssssssssssse make this thing. \o/

 

[antemortem]

shenanigans described it as a possible social experiment and I'm perfectly fine with that. I'm mostly convinced that we'd find that a forum section that boasts a lax ruleset will garner attention, but it'll have to be tempered to become whatever we want it to be. Obviously we don't want a section for hazing other members of PC, but something fun where we can - if people so choose - to playfully make fun of each other (who doesn't do this in real life, anyway?) alongside other relaxed topics would be a great way to cut into the monotony.

 

[Hiatus]

I understand that our conversation is currently geared towards having a place to hang without needing to worry about most of community rules, but if we again wish to suggest allowance of mature topic discussion and whatnot later throughout the thread (which might be natural, since it's partially related), I believe it'd be wise if we had chosen to use this post as reference, as it sums some ideas we've brought up before and could hopefully help ease our discussion.

 

[DRCM]

"A place where people go to vent their anger on people younger and more butthurt than them, with no penalty whatsoever". That, to me, sounds like an objectively bad idea. A section with the intention to facilitate that sort of thing with absolutely nothing being done about it is not something that I want on here and if that's really all that your proposal would bring then I'm not interested.
tl;dr +1 but for different purposes.

This was a badly timed inside joke. Your post has made me remember that other people do not understand inside jokes they aren't a part of. My intent with this definitely is not to harm other users. I wouldn't want that.

I'll edit that line out of my post

 

[moon]

Lots, if not a majority of forums have a section where most of the rules don't apply. Smogon has Firebot, Evreething has Utopia; you know what I mean, right? A place where you shouldn't go if you can't handle being insulted, and where most of the rules (e.g. no trolling) don't apply. A place where people go to vent their anger on people younger and more butthurt than them, with no penalty whatsoever. You need a place like that.

You wouldn't be able to go around and do these things IRL without being looked down upon by others. Why would you need to do it in written form online?

In more mild manners though, I can't completely disagree with what shenanigans is saying. But I don't think we need a new forum for it. Rather, we should continue to easy up in General Chat. Hasn't that mission been going quite well lately? And if not there, then the VIP Lounge should easily be allowed to be more like the Staff Hangout. Rather random and cozy, in other words. That would tone down the risk of having people signing up on PC just to spam our "offtopic/ruleless" section, since you have to become a supporter to post there.

EDIT: fyi, I'm trying to promote a rather laidback and allowing style in Pokémon General too, so I don't think it's just the offtopic sections that can benefit from this easygoing thinking.

 

[Olli]

However I have for a while now been interested in the idea of a section with no rules, no requirements, nothing like that. I know that I am one of a number of people who feel that PC pretty much needs to chill out, simply put. I often feel like there's this sort of unspoken 'standard' that needs to be met here and it's good on one hand in that we get overall pretty decent quality posts, but on the other... I feel it really, really stifles interaction between members. I get the feeling that people are almost afraid to talk to each other in threads half the time or just have a good laugh from fear of the great spamhammer descending upon them for straying slightly off the topic, and that's... really not conducive to a tight-knit, well-functioning community.

I agree that this is definitely a problem, and has been for a while, however I don't think adding a forum without rules would really resolve this thread in any way. I think it'd more likely confuse some people to what is and what isn't acceptable out of said forum. Not something I'd imagine would happen a lot, but I definitely see it as a more likely outcome to adding such a forum, than giving people a different attitude when it comes to how seriously they take posting around the forum in general.

I think a better way to combat this issue would be to address how staff handles warnings/infraction, and make it clearer for everyone when they should be handed out. One thing that surprised me during my time on staff, was how lax some people were with giving out yellow cards and infractions upon first offence, whereas I found that simply sending the person who broke the rules a PM, explaining what they did wrong, what the consequences of keeping it up would be and directing them to the rules. was enough to take care of the problem, and rarely did I find even just using a yellow card necessary. Meanwhile, I found that others were really generous with handing out both warnings and infractions, and I definitely think that's something that should be changed if you want to rid people of the fear of being more lax when posting in sections that isn't General Chat.


In regards to the actual topic, I'm honestly not sure how much of a positive impact a forum like that might have, but if it's more like the Staff Hangout as shenanigans pointed towards, then I wouldn't be against trying it out, even though I feel like General Chat already offers a lot of that. But I definitely don't think it should be like what was described in the OP. If you allow drama to take place inside one forum, it doesn't mean it won't have any impact outside it, and in general, I think it's few that would want to see drama :p

 

[CelticsPhan]

I'm a /vp/oreon so I don't go well with rules, but there is a line to sh*tposting in hopes that original and appropriate posts are retained. It's not really arrogance to want that, but with everyone so used to "internet freedom" that it's difficult to keep everything in check.

 

[Alexander Nicholi]

You wouldn't be able to go around and do these things IRL without being looked down upon by others. Why would you need to do it in written form online?

Welcome to the internet my friend.

 

[El Héroe Oscuro]

I mean if we're going to allow an experimental run on not having censors for swears, I don't see why something like this shouldn't be done. Just as Team Fail said, a place to bend rules within reason doesn't seem to be an issue at least to me.

 

[Aquacorde]

"Bend rules within reason", though? Isn't that what y'all are trying to do anyway across the board? Let up on PC's strictness and bend your (staff's) own rules? I mean, a lot of stuff is already up to mod discretion. The 4/25 rule is out the window half the time. It's really hard to tamp down on trolling if it's not super obviously malicious and afaik nothing really has been done about that. And, you know, a lot of other things. So like... aren't the rules always being bent within reason?

The proposal I'm seeing is just a straight up spam/hate/explicit content pit tbh. why does anyone actually need that. and if the rules are already being bent within reason, we don't need a forum for it either.

 

[Honest]

I don't like it. Maybe I'm thinking too narrow-mindedly, but there are two possible outcomes I'm seeing here if this were to come into effect.

A) [For the record, this is the result I expect, honestly speaking] The section becomes a very very liberated General Chat. Like, General Chat without the censoring of the really edgy(?) topics. The option to be a complete troll to others also exists, but I'm going to simply put blind faith that we're not that immature. If this were to become the case, I feel like a sub-section of GC would simply be more appropriate. It literally feels like one.

B)Turns into an internet hell. And I mean flaming, ridiculing, no censors for anything whatsoever. Anarchy comes to mind, although perhaps that's pushing it. I get the idea that we need to "relieve stress." But I don't think flaming/breaking every "rule" in existence is a proper way to go about that. Going to use an extreme analogy here and use me punching someone I dislike in the face as an example. Yeah, I'd feel really good by doing that, but does that make it right? I view internet trolling (to a certain degree anyway) on a similar level. Granted, I know I'm looking at one thing this section would bring out of a whole plethora, but I suppose it's the one that concerns me most.

I'd be much more comfortable with a section that doesn't allow people being complete morons and jerks, to be blunt. That stuff isn't acceptable in real life, so why should it be over the internet? Manage to somehow eliminate that possibility and I'd be all for this idea, but otherwise, I'm against it. Sorry.

 

[gimmepie]

Isn't a section without a postcount where members can seamlessly interact without fear of being off-topic and where light teasing of one another is permitted kind of the same thing as PC Live? Mind you I've never used it, but that sounds to me like what PC Live should be.

An actual forum dedicated to having practically no rules sounds like you're just asking for trouble. I wasn't around in the thunderdome days but if that was as bad as people say a "no rules" section would be to quote Dakota "internet hell" where flaming, mistreatment and trolling was the norm.

Speaking of said mod though, I would be up for a "Mature Topics" sub-forum in General Chat where members could go to discuss the topics that might be slightly bothersome to other members but still apply to GC - although it should also be noted we've had some pretty mature topics in that section without any real problems before anyway.

 

[Omicron]

So, is the suggestion something like the Dark Alley in the battle server?

If it is so, then I don't see why it may not work. Otherwise, I don't think I quite understand what is being proposed.

 

[gimmepie]

So, is the suggestion something like the Dark Alley in the battle server?

If it is so, then I don't see why it may not work. Otherwise, I don't think I quite understand what is being proposed.

The original suggestion was more or less a section in which people could go nuts and disregard the majority of PCs rules in order to let of steam and such.

Other suggestions have been made for alterations to this idea or to existing forums (like the mature sub-section originally suggested by Dakota) which could be seen as an equivalent to Dark Alley. That's my take on it anyway.

 

[Satoshi Ookami]

I think you have 4ch or something like that for this...

 

[DRCM]

Thanks for all the feedback and stuffs. I think you've changed my view on this a bit.