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#21 Elitism

I have to admit... I don't think it's as bad as it used to be. I haven't seen any signs of it on the forums since I came back. I know a long time ago though, I saw a lot of people picking favorites and made PC very corrupt. Some mods or staffers would even bully the n00bs a lot for being well... n00bs. D:

I think it's gotten a lot better since the previous times I've been here.
 
Compared to my previous two tenures on staff, there is a lot less elitism from the staff. I've never seen a better group of mods interacting daily with the members of the site. Specifically (and only because I don't venture far from VG or a select few other areas) Zeffy, Wobbu, El Hero, Omicron, Necrum, and myself (I am sure I'm forgetting someone) spend a lot of time on the Minecraft server amongst the "regular" PC members and we all get along great with each other and everyone else (as Kanzler said). We all love hanging on there.

Compared to the past, the entire staff hierarchy is leagues better than what we used to have. The "old guard" is gone and forward thinkers are influencing decisions for the forums and generating a website of connectivity and community. Granted there are still going to be those cases of "staff-star struck" members and staffers with big heads, but generally, I find this generation of staffers better than any in the past and I'm doing this for the third time, so I can compare the different generations fairly accurately. :P
 
I'm not sure PC is "elitist" so much as "cliquey". In my experience, each section tends to have a group of "in" people who are very familiar with each other. This situation can arise from certain members being there for a long time, or posting a lot, or being popular. Those people tend to form a clique, which makes it difficult for newer or less vocal members to get a word in edge-wise. It's not that they're intentionally exclusive, it's just that they're so familiar with each other that the whole group becomes unapproachable.
 
txteclipse said:
I'm not sure PC is "elitist" so much as "cliquey". In my experience, each section tends to have a group of "in" people who are very familiar with each other. This situation can arise from certain members being there for a long time, or posting a lot, or being popular. Those people tend to form a clique, which makes it difficult for newer or less vocal members to get a word in edge-wise. It's not that they're intentionally exclusive, it's just that they're so familiar with each other that the whole group becomes unapproachable.
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That's a pity ;; there's a difference between unapproachable cliques and cheery groups of friends though. Or, there should be.
 
Adventure said:
That's a pity ;; there's a difference between unapproachable cliques and cheery groups of friends though. Or, there should be.
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That's sort of what I mean though. A cheery group of friends can become unapproachable, if they're talking about an inside joke for instance. It's not a deliberate thing, but it does tend to happen with people who are close.
 
txteclipse said:
That's sort of what I mean though. A cheery group of friends can become unapproachable, if they're talking about an inside joke for instance. It's not a deliberate thing, but it does tend to happen with people who are close.
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Okay but that's just natural. As long as they don't actively try to shut newbies out, I really can't see that as a bad thing :) happens all the time irl too, after all.
 
Klippy said:
Compared to my previous two tenures on staff, there is a lot less elitism from the staff. I've never seen a better group of mods interacting daily with the members of the site. Specifically (and only because I don't venture far from VG or a select few other areas) Zeffy, Wobbu, El Hero, Omicron, Necrum, and myself (I am sure I'm forgetting someone) spend a lot of time on the Minecraft server amongst the "regular" PC members and we all get along great with each other and everyone else (as Kanzler said). We all love hanging on there.

Compared to the past, the entire staff hierarchy is leagues better than what we used to have. The "old guard" is gone and forward thinkers are influencing decisions for the forums and generating a website of connectivity and community. Granted there are still going to be those cases of "staff-star struck" members and staffers with big heads, but generally, I find this generation of staffers better than any in the past and I'm doing this for the third time, so I can compare the different generations fairly accurately. :P
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True true true true oh so true Klippy-san

I remember when I used to view staff as "power hungry" and I once even attempted to leave because there was one smod who was really getting on my nerves (he infracted me 2 years ago for something that I think doesn't even warrant one and I was worried about my reputation getting ruined) but these days the staff are much more lenient and are actually involving themselves with the fellow non-staffers which I think is the direction PC needs to go to keep our status as a friendly community.

I'd imagine that if I was in the shoes of a staffer I'd more likely involve myself with the non-staffers as opposed to staying confined in one or two areas like the previous generation did.

abnegation said:
If you feel you're above someone else due to your position or status on a Pokémon forum; there's something distinctly wrong with your brain.
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I once felt like I was "above" when I newly became a supporter back in 2012 but I overcame that and now just treat myself equal with the others. Good advice there by the way!
 
Not that anything would every come from this thread, but yes PC is and has been full of an elitist mindset for as long as I can remember.

First of all, don't ever try to argue with a staff member. Not only will all other staff jump in and assume you're the issue (Which sometimes is the case), but most of the younger users will as well. I believe the "want" behind getting staff also means kissing their behinds and blindly backing their opinion regardless of what that opinion is. So basically you'll have no one on your side.

Also, expect the staff members to get the emblems and awards (MotY for example) first, because again the "want" behind being staff etc..

Not saying some of these things in and of themselves are elitist, but it only fuels the elitism the staff already feels, and has felt since the day they got that "prestigious" title.

But they aren't all bad, Morkula for example has always been extremely level headed and treats me at least as if he weren't even on the staff in the first place.

Just my opinion. *Holds fingers up in shape of cross to protect from elitists*

Edit: Just want to agree with some of what Klippy said. I've certainly seen it much worse, however it's still there. The issue is pretty deeply rooted with a couple of the highest-up staffers and as such will probably always be at least a bit of an issue.

Also @ txteclipse I agree with you 100%, honestly why aren't we friends (Oh right, I'm kind of a dbag xD). I have to fight to get an answer when I post in some threads, because the "main" group of people are having a separate discussion and don't want to offroot it for a few seconds. This includes repeating myself in the IRC or battle server multiple times until someone gets annoyed and responds in a sarcastic tone because I inconvenienced them and their discussion with friends.

Guess I missed the day, oh well.
 
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Adventure said:
Okay but that's just natural. As long as they don't actively try to shut newbies out, I really can't see that as a bad thing :) happens all the time irl too, after all.
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Nope, not necessarily a bad thing. It can and does complicate matters however: it's just one of those natural laws of socialization. Best way to address it is to be receptive to people and be sure to respond to non-regulars.

abnegation said:
If you feel you're above someone else due to your position or status on a Pokémon forum; there's something distinctly wrong with your brain.
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This made me laugh so much. Some people take this sort of thing way too seriously. The reason I became a supporter was for a bigger avatar, no joke.

Ooka said:
Also @ txteclipse I agree with you 100%, honestly why aren't we friends
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Prooobably because I'm like the least active member in existence. XD
 
I think the only time elitism ever wouldn't be an issue is if all join dates, post counts and user ranks were removed, but of course that will never happen and in the case of user ranks for staff it would probably have a negative effect on the running of the forum.

As other members have mentioned, I think it's got a lot better in relation to staff. I wasn't actually aware of any supporter elitism prior to reading the thread in questions & feedback, but clearly it probably has existed on a low lying level since donations were introduced. As for join date, post count etc. those are even sillier reasons to be elitist. I don't contribute on many areas of the forum anymore so maybe I miss a lot of the elitism, but I'd say it's less of a problem than made out. Of course it would be great if it was not a problem at all, but it's very difficult to address.

Symbiosis said:
I got looked down upon and told to leave a thread a couple times just the other day on the forums because I told my story about how I don't work, live off inheritance, never will have to work a day in my life and that I have 12-14 hours free daily. I understand the normal every day person doesn't have these types abilities or free time but why should I be looked down upon or harassed because I just so happen too? It goes the same way as I shouldn't mess with people just because there struggling to barley pay their bills and have no free time.
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This is going to be pretty unrelated to the topic, but anyway... Those people were of course very wrong for excluding you from a discussion purely based on your financial income, the methods of how that came about, your free time etc., but maybe if you just flaunted it a bit less it wouldn't be a problem. I haven't seen the topic in question so I don't know if your discussion of your life situation was appropriate, but your posts in the discussion on Platinum supporters and the content in your signature sort of suggest you badly want people to know how much money you can freely throw around when really it's a Pokemon forum and you can easily contribute to most threads without anyone needing to know that information. Of course I can understand why you may want people to know you're rich and you're entitled to let them know, but don't be too surprised when some people aren't very receptive of it. As I said though, of course the reactions you mentioned are wrong. Please don't take this as any form of attack either, that is far from my intention.
 
I have sensed some tones of elitism from members but frankly I'm not here enough to really care. I mean, great, you've got [whatever] many posts on a Pokemon forum. You have [opinion] that disagrees with my own. Wow, great. Oh, you're somehow really cool because you have done [whatever] in [game]? Wow, fantastic. That's your accomplishment. Great. I'm happy for you. Now go over there with all of the other internet people who think they're special because they posted things on the internet, had an opinion and got a high score.

[PokeCommunity.com] #21 Elitism
 
I've always had a hard time gauging people's definitions of elitism, really. I think that elitism misses the point of it's subject and distracts from matters at hand more than anything, and honestly I couldn't care less about how someone acts. You distance yourself from undesirable people and that's about that.

It's important to hold the purpose of a title or responsibility/power at hand and not lose sight of that. Ergo, moderate for moderation's sake and not for a username or board perk, in layman's terms. You can be who you normally are and if someone screams "elitism" at you without a cause, you're in the right as you're doing what you do for the right reasons. They have nothing on you.


In terms of the PokéCommunity, both regular and reverse elitism are rather rampant. The majority of regulars here have long since held a reverence for staff that was unseen in my eyes from other types of forums, backed by next to nothing and a close-knit attitude of those who are staff (which isn't really a negative thing in and of itself, but it does contribute). PC is one of the most die-hard conservative forums I've ever been on, with so many of the members fearing change as if it was water and they were made of sugar. Along with an all-around baseless reverence for staff, at a point people took to look up to supporters as well but in my time here I've noticed that morphing into a sort of reverse-elitism that Symbiosis made a really valuable point on - somehow people seemingly look down upon those who donate egregious amounts of money as the likings of wannabe staff, even, and it's just downright lame. Post count is far too valuable here, though it's an issue on a lot more forums than usergroup aristocracies are like here. You cannot objectify and categorize good posts and good members arbitrarily, people. Come on, now.
 
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Meh.

The internet is elitist. Forums on the internet, in particular, are elitist.

PC is a forum; on the internet. It is not an exception.

There are places less elitist than this one, but there are also many others much more elitist than this one.

Such is internet life.
 
Alex said:
In terms of the PokéCommunity, both regular and reverse elitism are rather rampant. The majority of regulars here have long since held a reverence for staff that was unseen in my eyes from other types of forums, backed by next to nothing and a close-knit attitude of those who are staff (which isn't really a negative thing in and of itself, but it does contribute). PC is one of the most die-hard conservative forums I've ever been on, with so many of the members fearing change as if it was water and they were made of sugar. Along with an all-around baseless reverence for staff, at a point people took to look up to supporters as well but in my time here I've noticed that morphing into a sort of reverse-elitism that Symbiosis made a really valuable point on - somehow people seemingly look down upon those who donate egregious amounts of money as the likings of wannabe staff, even, and it's just downright lame. Post count is far too valuable here, though it's an issue on a lot more forums than usergroup aristocracies are like here. You cannot objectify and categorize good posts and good members arbitrarily, people. Come on, now.
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I agree with most of this except that one part bolded. I don't personally think that PC looks down upon people who donate large amounts of money - for example, you and I are both Platinum Supporters and we're both pretty accepted in this community. The thing with Symbiosis was that he had this really pompous attitude towards the rank in itself. The problem wasn't the actual supporter rank; it was the personality of the user that people clashed with.
 
El Héroe Oscuro said:
I agree with most of this except that one part bolded. I don't personally think that PC looks down upon people who donate large amounts of money - for example, you and I are both Platinum Supporters and we're both pretty accepted in this community. The thing with Symbiosis was that he had this really pompous attitude towards the rank in itself. The problem wasn't the actual supporter rank; it was the personality of the user that people clashed with.
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Maybe, but reading into what he wrote I really think there was a communication error - he may not natively speak English or something, I dunno. He had the wrong idea about what we're on about, but if you interpret what he says independently it seems he may have been thinking about something else and he was definitely right about that something else. I think.
 
In my opinion there is theres also a small amount of cliques which there obviously gonna be on a forum with so many different likes and dislikes around it. Theres also the occasional amount of mods who receive a lot more credit and are a lot meow known than others and then theres some staff members who are high ranking and not known haha. But since ive joined there has been elitism on the forums even in small amounts :p
 
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