• Our software update is now concluded. You will need to reset your password to log in. In order to do this, you will have to click "Log in" in the top right corner and then "Forgot your password?".
  • Welcome to PokéCommunity! Register now and join one of the best fan communities on the 'net to talk Pokémon and more! We are not affiliated with The Pokémon Company or Nintendo.

Homepage Layout

Klippy

L E G E N D of
16,405
Posts
18
Years
  • Us admins will be getting together to discuss feedback soon.

    I personally am okay and supportive of the subforum-layout changes to match the main series games layout. Other than that, I'm sure we will get a response formulated for some of the other feedback.

    Super appreciative of all of you who gave constructive feedback to us. It helps immensely, no matter what changes occur on the forums. :)
     

    Wicked3DS

    [b]Until the very end.[/b]
    4,592
    Posts
    10
    Years
  • Skipping over forums is bad. Basically, you said you're trying to increase activity, and from these responses, you've actually decreased it. Sure, it's all about new members, but what about your current loyal members?
     

    Taemin

    move.
    11,205
    Posts
    18
    Years
    • he / they
    • USA
    • Seen Apr 2, 2024
    I understand that some areas are being lost, or becoming an "afterthought", but with time, wouldn't we get used to the layout and figure out where things are, to go visit them again? Like all the times things have changed before, and you eventually adjust. Or all of us learning where everything ever was when we were new.

    I do like the Pokemon areas are more noticeable now. Feedback being farther down also makes sense. I kinda wish there were less sub-forums in off-topic, but as normal size areas I think that list would equally as awkward.
     

    Her

    11,468
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • Seen May 19, 2024
    I feel like there is a severe lack of faith in the memberbase here, which makes me tilt my head a bit.
     

    Nihilego

    [color=#95b4d4]ユービーゼロイチ パラサイト[/color]
    8,875
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • Just gonna interject here and say - instead of going off "people skip over forums" anecdotes, could we see some sort of numerical before / after data for the number of posts in each section? That's the only actual way to know if this change has impacted activity or not, and I know it's not particularly difficult to generate.
     

    Taemin

    move.
    11,205
    Posts
    18
    Years
    • he / they
    • USA
    • Seen Apr 2, 2024
    Maybe, but you're hurting forums in the process, and what if no one ever gets used to it, is it worth risking it? I think it's been proven that it's easier to ignore and hoping that everyone will get used to it, is not a good administrative strategy. I'm sure the admins know this, thus they're considering the feedback given so far.
    We've gotten used to all the changes before.

    Just gonna interject here and say - instead of going off "people skip over forums" anecdotes, could we see some sort of numerical before / after data for the number of posts in each section? That's the only actual way to know if this change has impacted activity or not, and I know it's not particularly difficult to generate.
    That's not a bad idea. o:
     

    Nihilego

    [color=#95b4d4]ユービーゼロイチ パラサイト[/color]
    8,875
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • And Razor Leaf: That's a lot of work I am not willing to do, but if you really need proof go check The Underground from before and after the layout change and you'll see we did lose some users.

    I wasn't asking a member to do the data collection. My post was directed to the admins who can do this with a couple of queries.
     

    Deokishisu

    Mr. Magius
    990
    Posts
    18
    Years
  • This page used to be the page for the entire ROMHacking subforum which allowed me to navigate to any of the subforums within ROMHacking painlessly and without having to scroll past the useless parts of PC to get to it. Now it is blank and I have to go to the homepage and scroll to find the ROMHacking stuff which is now buried in with Fangames. Please restore it.

    Fangames and ROMHacking will appear to be similar to people not involved in either activity, but they are so different that it is frankly stupid to group them together. The resources, tutorials, knowledge, etc. for putting together a fangame are completely irrelevant to ROMHacking and vice versa. The forums are not about high level game design concepts that would apply to both disciplines (like map design, pacing, etc.) and are much more technical and "zoomed in" and thus there is no benefit to putting the two together. Much of the time, technical limits prevent even the use of fangame tilesets/graphics from being used as-is in a ROMHack, as they often have way more colors than they should or are otherwise not formatted correctly. Likewise, ROMHacking tilesets/graphics are put together in a way that are inconvenient for a Fangame to use, as tilesets are often cut up to make space and have to play around technical limits that are simply not present for a Fangame.

    Furthermore (and perhaps most importantly), I believe putting the two communities under the same header will confuse newcomers and make it more difficult for the uninitiated to discern the two. I know that when I first rolled into the community all those years ago I was initially a bit confused, and the two communities were under a separate header then!

    Also, sort of related, but how many times are we going to reshuffle the ROMHacking sections? We're obviously not going to find an ideal if we haven't found one in this many iterations. What is the actual endgame goal with messing with it? Where was the input from the community on both merging us with Fangames and changing the Scrapbox/Beginner's Lounge/Launchpad again? At this point, you might as well just scatter the various ROMHacking subforums around randomly and abolish the rules in each of them, as much of the original intent of the individual subforums has been whittled away or bastardized over the years diminishing their overall usefulness and usability greatly.

    I hate to say this, but while our mods (in the ROMHacking subforum) are great people and fun to have around, they make for poor mods. Sorry guys, you know I love you all, but enough is enough. I've gotta criticize how the ROMHacking section has been run for the past few years. It's just a ton of unnecessary and demonstrably disruptive reshuffles, an easing of the rules which contributes to the low-quality of posts, and a disregard for community feedback (when asking for feedback before making changes even occurs to the modteam). The fact that our mods seem to be all in Europe also hurts the ROMHacking section, as we have no one moderating during primetime in the Americas, leaving trolling and poor etiquette (or simply misplaced posts) to sit for hours before being noticed and dealt with. RichterSnipes' Firered Throwback thread is a testament to this. Those troll posts sat for hours, and were frequent enough and disruptive enough that he requested the thread be closed for a time. I'm not saying instant action by the mods is expected in these situations, but the distribution of the modteam leaves much to be desired. Even one mod in the Americas would've been able to deal with that much more quickly and perhaps RichterSnipes wouldn't've felt that his only recourse was to take matters in his own hands and have the thread closed when the modteam repeatedly failed him.

    But seriously, what good has the current modteam done other than sometimes running the events that we've always had? I can't think of one change that they've made that has made a positive impact on me or on the community at large, or one original/unique event that they've started that has had any staying power. You might be able to count the Community Hack, but that literally took years to materialize and it remains to be seen if it will be successful. They don't even keep the subforum rules updated, so nobody knows when they suddenly decide that double-posting is okay, or loosen the requirements for posting certain things in certain forums, or even who to contact for help. I mean, the Research and Development subforum still has a link to Christos in its rules (which is dead, by the way). I don't even know if Christos is still around, since a bunch of the mods around the community abuse their name change privileges and it's impossible to keep tabs on who's who after multiple, multiple name changes unless you go back through their post history and remember a different name posting that.

    And I don't want this post to sit and not make the mods aware that I have made these criticisms, so I'm going to ping them in this spoiler. Again, love you guys as people, and I regret that it's come to the point where I have to air these grievances with the jobs you've done, but it's gotta come out.

    Also, I had no idea who Gust or colors was at first glance. Name changes should be more restrictive for mods than regular/supporter users. They need name recognition and a sense of continuity within the subforums they moderate.
     

    Salzorrah

    [font=Montserrat][b][color=#66CC66]g[/color][color
    6,374
    Posts
    13
    Years



  • quoting you guys so someone could see this

    Suggestion for "Forums getting unnoticed" and making the index feel a lot more modern

    How about if you arranged the forum like this?

    Homepage Layout


    It would fix the problem since you would apply that to sections like Offtopic, and Forum Games for one, and have tiles for each of them and stuff.

    Of course, colors of the tiles are debatable, you could add images to the background, and have like a translucent color overlay above it? I also had trouble thinking up for what could indicate read forums (you could tell from what I did in 5th and 1st gen), so maybe like make another icon for that? If this could not be done in this update, maybe it could be done in 2.0?

    Also I was thinking you could add a description under the "Pokemon: Main Series Games" tab above the tiles?

    What do you think?
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Nah

    bobandbill

    one more time
    16,941
    Posts
    16
    Years
  • Just gonna interject here and say - instead of going off "people skip over forums" anecdotes, could we see some sort of numerical before / after data for the number of posts in each section? That's the only actual way to know if this change has impacted activity or not, and I know it's not particularly difficult to generate.
    We'll be certainly looking into the post stats. (Part of the motivation had to do with posting stats of late, actually). May want to give it a while with monitoring stats, given we'd want to not be counting other trends like "people's christmas break ending" or whatnot could give their own increases/decreases.
    quoting you guys so someone could see this

    Suggestion for "Forums getting unnoticed" and making the index feel a lot more modern

    How about if you arranged the forum like this?

    *image and thoughts*
    I'm not one of those people you quote notified ( =( ) but I kinda like it - it does however seem a bit big with that customisation. I am sure such things can be toyed around with though to get the best of both worlds. Kinda also feel that 7th gen (Sun and Moon) needs to be separate given they are the current games.
    This page used to be the page for the entire ROMHacking subforum which allowed me to navigate to any of the subforums within ROMHacking painlessly and without having to scroll past the useless parts of PC to get to it. Now it is blank and I have to go to the homepage and scroll to find the ROMHacking stuff which is now buried in with Fangames. Please restore it.
    Ignoring the "useless parts of PC to get to it" aspect... that url works for me just fine. What forum skin are you using? (Screenshots?)

    Fangames and ROMHacking will appear to be similar to people not involved in either activity, but they are so different that it is frankly stupid to group them together. The resources, tutorials, knowledge, etc. for putting together a fangame are completely irrelevant to ROMHacking and vice versa. The forums are not about high level game design concepts that would apply to both disciplines (like map design, pacing, etc.) and are much more technical and "zoomed in" and thus there is no benefit to putting the two together. Much of the time, technical limits prevent even the use of fangame tilesets/graphics from being used as-is in a ROMHack, as they often have way more colors than they should or are otherwise not formatted correctly. Likewise, ROMHacking tilesets/graphics are put together in a way that are inconvenient for a Fangame to use, as tilesets are often cut up to make space and have to play around technical limits that are simply not present for a Fangame.
    While I can appreciate that they involve making games in rather different ways, I got to disagree that they are completely irrelevant. Before, Fangames/Game Dev was lumped in with the other creative sections - Art, Roleplays and Fanfics + Writing. Those three I argue are far more separate to fangames than Rom Hacking is - those two topics have the common tie of games and game creation, not individual drawings or story writing. The only other solution beyond leaving it in Creative (it always stuck out oddly to me in there) is to stick it in its own category, which moves away from the overall aim (to cut down on forum space to scroll through on the index, etc.).
    Furthermore (and perhaps most importantly), I believe putting the two communities under the same header will confuse newcomers and make it more difficult for the uninitiated to discern the two. I know that when I first rolled into the community all those years ago I was initially a bit confused, and the two communities were under a separate header then!
    In all due respect, you being initially confused doesn't mean it will confuse everyone else. We can always work on presentation of subforums and all, but at worst I can't believe that people will be confused with PC or unable to work it out upon visiting the sections, or after asking a mod for clarification.

    I'd rather that we not discuss stuff like ROM hacking modding in here, because this thread is not for that. It's already 6 pages and a bit muddled, we don't need to go off topic. Take it to PM or a new thread. That said, I will say a couple things quickly (not as a ROM hacking mod or whatnot):
    The fact that our mods seem to be all in Europe also hurts the ROMHacking section, as we have no one moderating during primetime in the Americas, leaving trolling and poor etiquette (or simply misplaced posts) to sit for hours before being noticed and dealt with. RichterSnipes' Firered Throwback thread is a testament to this. Those troll posts sat for hours, and were frequent enough and disruptive enough that he requested the thread be closed for a time. I'm not saying instant action by the mods is expected in these situations, but the distribution of the modteam leaves much to be desired. Even one mod in the Americas would've been able to deal with that much more quickly and perhaps RichterSnipes wouldn't've felt that his only recourse was to take matters in his own hands and have the thread closed when the modteam repeatedly failed him.
    While time zones is something we consider, we don't just mod people to cover time zones. There's a heck of a lot more (activity, contributions to the forum as a member, infringement history, etc) that goes into who is selected to be a mod or not, and even with people from different times zones you will always get cases where things get left "for hours" because people aren't online. I've seen that happen on multiple sites - in the end every mod is doing this as a hobby and shouldn't be expected to consistently cover all times or act on every incident asap.

    That, and there's always the hstaff team. Use the report button or PM an active hstaffer if there is rule breaking going on that has to be dealt with then and there. It's rare when nobody from the section is online and a super mod or admin isn't online.
    I don't even know if Christos is still around, since a bunch of the mods around the community abuse their name change privileges and it's impossible to keep tabs on who's who after multiple, multiple name changes unless you go back through their post history and remember a different name posting that.
    Also, I had no idea who Gust or colors was at first glance. Name changes should be more restrictive for mods than regular/supporter users. They need name recognition and a sense of continuity within the subforums they moderate.
    Just because they're mods doesn't mean they have less of a right to usernames than any other member, frankly. =/ Each section lists who is the mod of the section and there's the username colour/mod bar on top of that. (And this is coming from someone who's only name change was part of an April Fool event. =p)
     

    Salzorrah

    [font=Montserrat][b][color=#66CC66]g[/color][color
    6,374
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • I'm not one of those people you quote notified ( =( ) but I kinda like it - it does however seem a bit big with that customisation. I am sure such things can be toyed around with though to get the best of both worlds. Kinda also feel that 7th gen (Sun and Moon) needs to be separate given they are the current games.

    Oops sorry bout that :x Thats why I kinda suggested it could be done in 2.0 if it could not be done now. I guess Gen 7 could be placed above like the current one and have the 6 other gens be below it arranged like that, would also apply to the other sections like Offtopic and such
     

    Deokishisu

    Mr. Magius
    990
    Posts
    18
    Years
  • Ignoring the "useless parts of PC to get to it" aspect... that url works for me just fine. What forum skin are you using? (Screenshots?)
    https://i.imgur.com/Z6TbzxE.png I'm using one of the Xerneas skins. I think it's Color Flattered X. Been using it since it's been an option. Also, for many of us in the ROMHacking subforum, the rest of PokeCommunity is useless. I wasn't aware that that would be a surprise to someone in hstaff.
    While I can appreciate that they involve making games in rather different ways, I got to disagree that they are completely irrelevant. Before, Fangames/Game Dev was lumped in with the other creative sections - Art, Roleplays and Fanfics + Writing. Those three I argue are far more separate to fangames than Rom Hacking is - those two topics have the common tie of games and game creation, not individual drawings or story writing. The only other solution beyond leaving it in Creative (it always stuck out oddly to me in there) is to stick it in its own category, which moves away from the overall aim (to cut down on forum space to scroll through on the index, etc.).
    I disagree. ROMHacking and Fangames do belong under the creative header, because they are inherently creative endeavors. That and the fact that the result of the creativity is a playable game are the only things the two sections actually have in common. If you would put one "hub" subforum each on the main page under the Creative header (one for ROMHacking which links to all its subforums and one for Fangames) without including the rest of the bloat from those two sections, you would save even more space, separate the two communities that literally are useless for each other, cut down on the confusion I'm talking about, and it would actually make sense. I don't see the reason that the ROMHacking section has always taken up so much space on the homepage anyway. Why are all our individual subforums out and about when it could be structured on the homepage like The Roleplay Theater, which has a hub forum with links to the subforums right beneath it not taking up any space.
    In all due respect, you being initially confused doesn't mean it will confuse everyone else. We can always work on presentation of subforums and all, but at worst I can't believe that people will be confused with PC or unable to work it out upon visiting the sections, or after asking a mod for clarification.
    With all due respect, you are obviously not familiar with the demographic the ROMHacking section attracts.
    I'd rather that we not discuss stuff like ROM hacking modding in here, because this thread is not for that. It's already 6 pages and a bit muddled, we don't need to go off topic. Take it to PM or a new thread. That said, I will say a couple things quickly (not as a ROM hacking mod or whatnot):
    Fair enough. I was told by a ROMHacking mod that this was the place to complain about the changes to the section and lumping us in with Fangames. I made my post before realizing that this is homepage specific. Where is the appropriate place to discuss this? A new thread in this section or in the ROMHacking Hub where more of our members will see it and be able to comment on it?
    While time zones is something we consider, we don't just mod people to cover time zones. There's a heck of a lot more (activity, contributions to the forum as a member, infringement history, etc) that goes into who is selected to be a mod or not, and even with people from different times zones you will always get cases where things get left "for hours" because people aren't online. I've seen that happen on multiple sites - in the end every mod is doing this as a hobby and shouldn't be expected to consistently cover all times or act on every incident asap.
    Again, like I said, instant response time isn't expected, but the hours long wait times are consistent and the ROMHacking subforum goes unmodded for most of the Americas' primetime. Would you rather have a mod in the Americas pulling up the slack or people hounding the hstaff (which realistically no one wants to do)? Average response times would be a heck of a lot quicker if there was an American (referring to the two continents) mod checking in occasionally while the EU mods are sleeping.
    Just because they're mods doesn't mean they have less of a right to usernames than any other member, frankly. =/ Each section lists who is the mod of the section and there's the username colour/mod bar on top of that. (And this is coming from someone who's only name change was part of an April Fool event. =p)
    Sure they don't. Doesn't mean that they should be using that right constantly though. I'm not talking about them not being identifiable as mods and never was. Like you said, the mod bar and color takes that out of the equation. It's not knowing who I'm talking to when the mods change their name so often. After several name changes, the "previously known as:" dropdown doesn't keep up and there's no continuity. The mods and higher staff should feel some sort of onus to provide that continuity. I will never understand name changing as often as allowed. Names tie your identity to your posts; If you want customization, change your avatar. It's a big problem when I have to question if this is the same mod I talked to yesterday or somebody new.
     

    Nah

    15,954
    Posts
    10
    Years
    • Age 31
    • she/her, they/them
    • Seen yesterday
    I don't see the reason that the ROMHacking section has always taken up so much space on the homepage anyway.
    idk man, ROM Hacking is one of the site's two biggest draws by far

    I was told by a ROMHacking mod that this was the place to complain about the changes to the section and lumping us in with Fangames. I made my post before realizing that this is homepage specific. Where is the appropriate place to discuss this? A new thread in this section or in the ROMHacking Hub where more of our members will see it and be able to comment on it?
    This thread is for discussing the new index layout. Voicing concerns/issues about staff members/the staff team (which is what half of your initial post was about) should go into this thread instead: https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=309931
     
    10,078
    Posts
    15
    Years
    • UK
    • Seen Oct 17, 2023
    Looks pretty interesting :) I don't really get the "I'm missing forums!" when it comes to the offtopic section though, especially if they're visiting the treehouse/main forum and posting there anyway, it's just a case of growing accustomed to it.

    I also don't think making every forum an eyesore bright colour/image is the way to make a forum more usable :x.
     

    Deokishisu

    Mr. Magius
    990
    Posts
    18
    Years
  • idk man, ROM Hacking is one of the site's two biggest draws by far
    Then why bury it in with an irrelevant section and muddy the waters?
    This thread is for discussing the new index layout. Voicing concerns/issues about staff members/the staff team (which is what half of your initial post was about) should go into this thread instead: https://www.pokecommunity.com/showthread.php?t=309931
    Gotcha. Thank you. Though I doubt that anyone in the ROMHacking section will be aware that our mods are being discussed, as again, many of us don't venture out of our section (and if they do, they certainly don't end up here). I'd rather have our community discussing this as a whole instead of me (or a few others perhaps) shouting into the void for nothing.
     

    Nihilego

    [color=#95b4d4]ユービーゼロイチ パラサイト[/color]
    8,875
    Posts
    13
    Years
  • okay so it's definitely more user-friendly now and hopefully this'll kill concerns about forums being missed since they've all got their own (enormous) space, but the index is now even more inconsistent than before ): we have three different ways of showing sections going on and no particular reason for any area having one over the other

    inb4 "we weren't done yet" in which case IGNORE ME XO
    e: okay given that some sections are completely missing from the index i figure it's not done yet
     
    Last edited:
    6,355
    Posts
    18
    Years
    • Seen Apr 16, 2020
    Fangames and ROMHacking will appear to be similar to people not involved in either activity, but they are so different that it is frankly stupid to group them together. The resources, tutorials, knowledge, etc. for putting together a fangame are completely irrelevant to ROMHacking and vice versa. The forums are not about high level game design concepts that would apply to both disciplines (like map design, pacing, etc.) and are much more technical and "zoomed in" and thus there is no benefit to putting the two together. Much of the time, technical limits prevent even the use of fangame tilesets/graphics from being used as-is in a ROMHack, as they often have way more colors than they should or are otherwise not formatted correctly. Likewise, ROMHacking tilesets/graphics are put together in a way that are inconvenient for a Fangame to use, as tilesets are often cut up to make space and have to play around technical limits that are simply not present for a Fangame.

    Furthermore (and perhaps most importantly), I believe putting the two communities under the same header will confuse newcomers and make it more difficult for the uninitiated to discern the two. I know that when I first rolled into the community all those years ago I was initially a bit confused, and the two communities were under a separate header then!

    Also, sort of related, but how many times are we going to reshuffle the ROMHacking sections? We're obviously not going to find an ideal if we haven't found one in this many iterations. What is the actual endgame goal with messing with it? Where was the input from the community on both merging us with Fangames and changing the Scrapbox/Beginner's Lounge/Launchpad again? At this point, you might as well just scatter the various ROMHacking subforums around randomly and abolish the rules in each of them, as much of the original intent of the individual subforums has been whittled away or bastardized over the years diminishing their overall usefulness and usability greatly.

    Firstly I just want to point out that the resources, tutorials and knowledge of ROM Hacking and Game Development were not put together or merged, we understand that these two are very different communities. The resources for each community are in the ROM Hacking and Custom Game Development forums respectively, they were simply grouped under the 'Fan Games' title. The only forum that allows threads for both ROM Hacking and Game Development is the Fan Games Hub, as a good portion of the threads there are about game design and concepts that apply to both communities, though there can be discussions specific to one or the other as well. If you feel that this is confusing we can introduce ROM Hacking and Game Development thread categories to address this.

    I understand this change happened way too soon after dividing the Beginner's Lounge to the Launchpad and HMH, a change we were actually quite happy with as it made things more oganised, but because the whole community was to be restructured and the two communities were decided to be put under the same forum area, we tried to make the best of it. You mentioned that you preferred the old way ROM Hacking was structured, with all the sub-forums underneath it. This recent change made it similar to that, and in my opinion better, as it divided ROM hacking into two main forums, one for ROM hackers to get help and share resources, and one for ROM hacks. The current Fan Games area consists of the Hub, where both ROM hackers and game developers can post discussion threads, followed by the ROM Hacking forums, and then the Game Development forums. If you're finding this layout confusing, perhaps we can come up with a way to make the division between the forums clearer.
     
    37,467
    Posts
    16
    Years
    • they/them
    • Seen Apr 19, 2024
    Could we at least try to reduce the number of visible threads on the index to 3? 5 seems to make it unnecessarily long, unless that's my resolution/style playing tricks.
     
    Back
    Top