The State of Rom Hacking

[inFamousFox]

(This post discusses the state of the rom hacking community by casual players from vizzed.com and other websites pokemon hacks can be played. Please do not delete this post as it addresses many questions that people feel must be answered or at least, explained. Thank you moderators.)


The rom hacking community has been taken over by nothing but elitist jerks (believe me I wanted to write a different word but I dont want my post erased before I even get to the point).The majority of people who play these rom hacks are casual players just looking for something to play. Rom hacking does not entirely revolve around you "experts". Its almost like these "expert rom hackers" all hang out somewhere in a private chatroom or something and discuss/bash on new/casual hacks. An example of this are the Lurkers (Followers are more like it) that only post on a thread after someone they look up too in the community post.


I have a very important question to the people who consider themselves "veteran/expert" rom hackers; where are YOUR hacks? These serious rom hackers who create all of these tools, all of these enhancements, where are your HACKS? Players dont cares that you're working on a tool for pokemon to follow you outside of battle. Players dont cares that fairy types are added to the Rom or you added new moves. People just want to play Pokemon hacks. Its that simple. I dont understand how people who have so much knowledge of rom hacking can judge others who have completed hacks or have just fun, casual hacks? Is it because you experts cant be original? Heres a question; how come all of the hacks you veteran rom hackers like so much are simply remakes or small modifications of the real gba/ds games? Im speaking on behalf of a lot of ppl (Or the casuals, you know, the people who play rom hacks the most?); when we play a rom hack, we want something original. Something unique. I dont want to play fire red with the only difference is a physical/special split. I dont want to play a hack with the same exact story as fire red only with graphical enhancements.
A few of these hacks you experts feel are so great? Heres something my friend Hound of Justice posted:


""Cobalt by spherical, a good hack with good humor graphics are almost unchanged some nice scripts and bugs here and there
With the biggest problem being not able to save
Nothing special no wonder it didnt got lots of attention and now the hack will be overhauled for the next beta which will take who knows how much time

YetAnotherFRHack by doesnt, just a harder firered with stat changes, some next gen pokemon, move changes this was done like in 50 other hacks
Same person was a judge in the hoty and gave low scores to hacks he only can only dream of making xD
His hack is sitting in the most forgotten section of hacks with a few followers here and there
Again nothing special""
and now we have Platinum Red & Blue...again, solid looking hack, but once again, remake. Darkviolet? Great hack...but its a remake...Canceled (Like most "superior" hacks).


This post is not to bash anyone or anything, believe me. Mods do not delete this post. The hacks posted above are all very good. I just want to discuss the state of rom hacking. You people who feel you're so superior in rom hacking are actually destroying and discouraging players to want to try to create a rom hack of their own. Why cant hacks be fun anymore? Why must all hacks have to live up to some standard you veterans created? Most of you always look down upon or speak negative of people who just want to make a hack, not to create something of great, superb, value. Is it because you want rom hacking to be accepted by an audience it's not attended for? Im sorry; newsflash; rom hacking, no matter how hard you experts try to improve it, will never be known outside of a small, general audience. Once you people sign off of all your rom hacking community website accounts, no one will know, you'll be back to being an ordinary regular person. You created an amazing tool for people to rom hack and now you feel superior enough to look down at hacks that either dont use your tool or dont want to hack to a higher degree? How come you veterans never finish your hacks? Are casual players really suppose to wait years upon years to finally play what you have to offer only for it to be canceled within a year or so which then leads you "experts" to work on something new? We suppose to get our hopes up again? By the time your hack is complete, you'll be too old to be doing this. Too many responsibilities. I'd rather play a hack thats fun with glitches that can be overlooked rather than play something flawless that required more than 7 years to be completed. No one has time to wait for a rom hack like that.


I came here from vizzed.com. Some of the rom hacks you "elitist" consider horrible hacks are scored very high on the site. Why? Because they are fun and dont try to be something more than what is is; A rom hack. Can I another question? Are we casual rom hacking players stupid or inferior because we enjoy hacks you veterans consider garbage? These are serious questions I and a lot others wish to know. I can assure myself lurkers who never post on a thread will be sure to reply to me ONLY IF someone they look up too reply. (Why do you do that?) Will the moderators delete this post? Probably. I am not insulting anyone. Is it because its the truth and even the moderators are apart of this "elitist wave" that's taken over the community? Again, probably. Let me guess, you veterans are helping out the community by creating tools that can be used for future rom hackers? That may be true, but your attitude towards new or casual hackers is hurting the growth of the community more. You cannot have a future without growth.


You want to know why im saying this? Because I was fully ready to begin my own rom hack. But now, after seeing the type of "community" this is, I have no interest anymore. I will simply be judged if its not up to the standard thats been set. Fun hacks cant exist anymore in the eyes of the veterans. Maybe you take this stuff too seriously? Rom hacking wont get you anymore. As I said, once you sign off all your hacking websites, your nobody again. Your username does not bring you fame. Goodbye pokecommunity. I've spent a about 5 months studying the "community" aspect of this place. Its not worth it. Im not the only one who feels this way.

 

[Mana1]

As someone who is not a veteran or an expert I cannot say I have ever been victimised by other ROM hackers.

In fact, I have the opposite opinion - that casual gamers are too easily impressed with fancy graphics and demakes/remakes. You see here that new graphics means lots of comments even if the story is nonexistent and no scripting has even been done.

Experienced hackers here do seem to critique more and provide actual feedback. Most are also helpful and answer questions in the lounge or in their tool threads.

I don't really understand your rant but if you've somehow seen some hideous side to hacking after 7 posts here then I guess there's nothing to change your mind. If you've not already gone why don't you try interacting more before presuming :(.

 

[Spherical Ice]

To begin with, I would argue that the state of the hacking community at the moment is far more inclusive and helpful than it has ever been. In around 2009 the community was far more toxic, with things like open source being a seemingly foreign concept because of certain hackers' desire for exclusivity, and in general ROM hacking was much less accessible than it is today (which isn't saying much as it was still relatively easy, compared to the other hacking scenes out there).

I think it's massively unfair to hate the "serious rom hackers who create all of these tools, all of these enhancements" simply because they have no hacks, as a majority of the hacks you play, whether you know it or not, have used aspects of hacking that has been researched and developed by these individuals in order to deliver the unique or fresh experience you enjoy. It's also worth noting that there is not only one sole purpose when it comes to ROM hacking: not everyone is interested in creating a new game, some people just want to discover more about the ROMs and enjoy the process of reverse-engineering, as well as pushing the vanilla games to their limits by introducing the more modern features of the Pokémon games.

The notion that players don't care for the Fairy-type, or for the Physical / Special / Status split, or for new moves, new abilities, etc. is complete nonsense. For one, generalising the entire community is a very silly thing to do, considering the breadth and reach of the Pokémon community. I have personally seen the aforementioned features be seen as the baseline requirements for many players when deciding on which hacks to play. Though that may not be the case on the more communities you visit, it is unfair to disregard the players who do care, or claim that they are not interested in having fun because of their different needs.

I'm unsure what your point about my hack Cobalt was, it seems like you were just stating facts about it. However, I do think it's rather unprofessional of you to berate hacks such as YAFRH and Platinum Red and Blue, because, regardless of whether or not they specifically interest you, there are undoubtedly two very influential and impressive hacks that, while perhaps not intended for the type of player such as yourself, have undoubtedly led to the research and development of many aspects of ROM hacking that has most likely spilled over into the hacks that you do enjoy playing.

It's unfortunate that you feel that certain members of the community view you as inferior because of your motivations for playing hacks; I certainly don't see this to be an issue but if it is perhaps you should bring the issue up with the individuals instead of attacking an entire community and throwing a tantrum. If you feel that you cannot make a hack because of the opinions of others on the internet -- ones that you yourself have dismissed as irrelevant -- then perhaps you should just create hacks for yourself and ignore what these people say if their opinions affect you so deeply. However, I genuinely believe that the ROM hacking community has become far more beginner-friendly in recent years and the creation of more exciting hacks with more features such as extended Pokédexes have become more and more accessible to newer users, which is only a good thing even if that may not interest you personally.

Your frustration with the delay of the more polished ROM hacks is sadly an inevitability that does not arise from elitism or any of the reasons you appear to see them as, it's simply because ROM hacking is, ultimately, a hobby, and nobody should put their real-life priorities before it. There's also the factor that people get bored, and that hacks do indeed take a long time to make which is why so many completed hacks get berated because, in general, they tend to be of a lower quality as there was less time invested in them. That isn't to say they aren't fun in their own right, but it is unfair to claim that they are of the same quality when they frankly aren't, and it is unfair to imply that they should be void of any criticism or complaints simply because they're finished.

I don't feel I've properly articulated my exact response to this argument and I may likely come back and edit this post in the future or make further posts that clarify my viewpoint. All in all, I just think you should recognise that when people deliver criticism to hacks, even if it is done in a hard way, the "critics", for want of a better term, are only investing the time into providing said criticism to try and improve the hacks and, ultimately, improve the community. You should definitely not give up hacking before you've started due to the fear of negative comments, because the community would arguably be in a far worse and unproductive state if it were any more of a place were praise was given out as often as it is than it already is. I'm sad to see you leave, though, and I hope you do continue to pursue the creation of your hack even if it does anonymously or elsewhere.

Edit: Well it seems Magic has summarised my seven-paragraph-long thoughts with a couple of lines, so this post is mostly redundant.

tl;dr, see Magic's post, haha.

 

[CosmicBlazer]

Yeah following what Magic said. I haven't experienced what you just ranted about. I've seen countless times where experienced hackers would give some tips to people who started their hack and some would offer their help. I don't know what you dealt with to say this.

 

[twocows]

It sucks that your experience has been negative, but that doesn't seem to be the experience of other people I know and you didn't really provide any substantive evidence of a problem. Who are these people you're taking issue with and what is it that they're saying that's unjustified and not constructive?

 

[Tcoppy]

I really dislike that you show no respect towards tool makers and all the people that make enhancements to the roms because
A. If these didn't exist, I highly doubt there'd be a lot of "fun hacks" with no tools and knowledge there would be no hacks.
B. Some of these people don't have hacks and rather work on researching and programing if that's okay with you.
C. "Player's don't care about new types or moves and tools"...This has to be the most obnoxious and disrespectful comment. You can't just assume that, because I know that people that I know on here love this stuff and love that people are researching on this.
D. You're just being rude, to be blunt. These toolmakers and researchers work a lot on learning about all this stuff and they create all these enhancements and tools from their blood, sweat, and tears. "People don't care about that"? That's really rude.
E. These "experts" create remakes (also Platinum Red and Blue are demakes by the way) and modifications, to learn and grow and research more. It's not necessarily the story they're after, although it helps a lot, they focus on features. Do you know Gogojjtech is making an exact replica of Platinum on a Fire Red engine. You think it's nothing special. HE IS MAKING AN EXACT REPLICA OF PLATINUM, GEN 4 PLATINUM TO GEN 3 FIRE RED.


I understand if you dealed with people that act like they're all that but that's not the whole community, only a very slim ammount, and almost every "elite hacker" helps a lot with everybody. GoGo actually helped me learn a lot about Hex editing with the help of Le Pug pushing me to do it. They want to see this community grow and get better. You're misunderstanding "The State of Rom Hacking" this day and age. Sorry.

 

[destinedjagold]

I may not be good in programming nor have I created any tools for ROM hacking, but you offending them offended me as well. And it hurts.

I'm not good at ROM hacking. I only rely on tools.
Without them, I doubt I could have done any ROM hacking at all.

My youngest brother accidentally discovered Advance Map, and if it wasn't for that tool, I don't think I'll be introduced to the world of ROM Hacking. =/

But eh, my point is that, as a few already stated, without the tools, there wouldn't even be a lot of "fun hacks" around. So you should be grateful for those people who've spent a lot of their free time doing research and making these tools, helping shape up these "fun hacks."

 

[DoesntKnowHowToPlay]

....what bizarre section of Pokecommunity have you been visiting? I see a giant hugfest where, besides me occasionally being a crankypants who you can rather safely ignore, you're free to do whatever the hell you want and someone is going to appreciate it.

I don't really have much to say that hasn't already been said, but this post seems incredibly directed at me specifically and I can't resist so:

I dont understand how people who have so much knowledge of rom hacking can judge others who have completed hacks or have just fun, casual hacks?

Usually to enhance the hack they're critiquing, or the medium as a whole if the hacker won't listen. Game design and hacking are both difficult- criticism helps us learn what we should and shouldn't do in both fields. A lot of casual players don't want to put up with overleveled Sunnybeam in the first gym, and a lot of them also don't want to deal with their mons randomly losing abilities because the hacker didn't realize how ability slots worked. Pointing these issues out publicly encourages other hackers to not do this.

Players dont cares that fairy types are added to the Rom or you added new moves.

Im speaking on behalf of a lot of ppl (Or the casuals, you know, the people who play rom hacks the most?); when we play a rom hack, we want something original. Something unique. I dont want to play fire red with the only difference is a physical/special split.

"Fire red where the only difference is a physical/special split" isn't a hack meant to be played, it's meant to be used as a device to enhance hacks. Did you enjoy the betas for Dark Violet or Dark Rising 2? That patch went into both of those, and they'd be weaker games if it wasn't publicly available as getting it to work properly from scratch was beyond the skill level of both hackers at the time. Also what exactly is "original" and "unique" supposed to mean to you? Type and move editing is just another avenue down which experts and novices alike can make their hacks distinct from each other and from vanilla. I want original and unique hacks just as much as you do, and for myself and many others that means mixing it up on the battlefield, not just the overworld.

I dont want to play a hack with the same exact story as fire red only with graphical enhancements.

It's funny you bring this up specifically because pretty much nobody who knows what they're doing is trying to get you to play this. Hacks like those are usually called rombases, and exist for the same purpose as the DPSS- allowing people who aren't exceptionally skilled in one area, such as graphics or move editing, to not be purely vanilla on that front. I cite Dark Rising as a reason graphical patches like those exist- it'd probably be vanilla FR graphics if the dev didn't have a rombase.

YetAnotherFRHack by doesnt, just a harder firered with stat changes, some next gen pokemon, move changes this was done like in 50 other hacks

There's 50 hacks that implemented a physical/special split with custom abilities and battle scripting? Dang. I'm hard-pressed to find more than 5 completed ones.

Same person was a judge in the hoty and gave low scores to hacks he only can only dream of making xD
His hack is sitting in the most forgotten section of hacks with a few followers here and there
Again nothing special""

This post is not to bash anyone or anything, believe me.

lol

Why must all hacks have to live up to some standard you veterans created? Most of you always look down upon or speak negative of people who just want to make a hack, not to create something of great, superb, value.

I'd like to be able to enjoy playing romhacks personally, which I struggle with when they dangle fun mons in front of me and task me with killing level 70 Kyurem-formes back-to-back in earlygame, or when I'm being bombarded with crappy fanfiction.

How come you veterans never finish your hacks? Are casual players really suppose to wait years upon years to finally play what you have to offer only for it to be canceled within a year or so which then leads you "experts" to work on something new?

Since this post has my name written all over for it I'll answer the earlier question of "where are your hacks" with this question- I don't release hacks super-early publicly on policy as I don't want to create yet more clutter. A lot of people aren't hacking to create a game for people to play, they're hacking because they enjoy it and/or want to find out how the ROM's internals work. Personally I get bored as hell if I spend too long on the tedious portions of making the game, which is why all you see from me is dumb technical stuff in the side forums you never visit. Sorry for publicizing stuff and enhancing the hacks that do get completed.

Are we casual rom hacking players stupid or inferior because we enjoy hacks you veterans consider garbage?

No, and even if we did think that, why should you care? Enjoy playing what you want to- goodness knows the hacks I like have issues with them. A lot of us will get annoyed if you try to blindly defend them against legitimate criticism without actually responding to the criticism, but if you really like an unpopular hack go ahead and play it anyway.

I was fully ready to begin my own rom hack. But now, after seeing the type of "community" this is, I have no interest anymore. I will simply be judged if its not up to the standard thats been set. Fun hacks cant exist anymore in the eyes of the veterans.

I maintain that there's basically no criticism here and you can do whatever the hell you want, but if you're that scared somebody will point out a thing for you to fix then good luck working up the nerve to show off any creative work publicly.

Another thing probably worth pointing out, but that doesn't tie into my arguments well, is that Vizzed is mostly comprised of people playing games by my understanding. Pokecommunity's romhacking forums exist largely for romhackers to share materials- that might be why the people here expect more professionalism from their hacks. I'm not going to go "wow cobalt's level curve is ridiculous" on Vizzed because hacks are posted there without asking the creators, and so I have no reason to believe Spherical Ice is keeping tabs on it there. If I drop that in the Pokecommunity thread, which was posted by the person who actually made the hack, it'd be reasonable to assume that yeah, my message might get read by the dev and taken into account on future development, which means a better hack for everyone. This might be why you're seeing more criticism here than at Vizzed- there's no reason to mess with it over there.

Anyway sorry for ranting if that's what this post comes off as. Probably spent far too long on it given that the other posts here are fantastic responses that mostly say the same stuff.

 

[miksy91]

Most of you probably don't agree but I can see the points this new guy (with the main post in this thread) has been pulling out. Sure, some of them are clearly not valid and even if they were, you shouldn't insult anyone by stating his/her nickname in the process.

But as a good example, both I and Koolboyman used to hack like elitists do back in the day. And for those who don't know, both of us had been creating gen I & II hacks with content that there are no game specific tools for and we know our stuff.
Yet when we acted like that, we were not even close to the level of undestanding behind how those games work in general. Personally, I was an elitist when I understood how to work out with a hex editor efficiently and knew how to repoint data.

So anyway... what he said there is kinda true about "it being easy to complain if you know you could do better. but if you do so, you're nothing but an idiot." But as Tcoppy also pointed out, some people are not interested about game making at all. They would much rather program tools for rom hacking or do research behind how several in-game mechanisms work. And well... with no research there would have been no tools, nor rom hacks (though those really don't depend on tools but research).

You want to know why im saying this? Because I was fully ready to begin my own rom hack. But now, after seeing the type of "community" this is, I have no interest anymore. I will simply be judged if its not up to the standard thats been set. Fun hacks cant exist anymore in the eyes of the veterans. Maybe you take this stuff too seriously? Rom hacking wont get you anymore. As I said, once you sign off all your hacking websites, your nobody again. Your username does not bring you fame. Goodbye pokecommunity. I've spent a about 5 months studying the "community" aspect of this place. Its not worth it. Im not the only one who feels this way.

Perhaps this kind of elitism still exists and it might not never go away. Nevertheless, most veteran hackers do not act this way.


(Not sure where I was even going for with this post. Maybe it turned out like this because I didn't plan before-hand what I was going to say. But another reason for that is that it takes so long to write full sentences in a foreign language, which english is to me, and you kinda forget what you were even going to write about at a time.)

 

[Avara]

Okay before anyone jumps on me for this, and although people have pretty much answered this effectively enough already...


I can KIND OF see where this guy is coming from, from when I FIRST joined the forums, in one way. For example I found it quite intimidating at first, in the sense that I knew zilch but was a little scared to PM people to ask questions or ask too many questions in general in case other people would be like 'oh god this guy again' or that I was being annoying lol.


BUT after I jumped in a few times, I found that people on here are actually not like that at ALL. Everyone I've spoken with on here has been genuinely very nice and, if it wasn't for some of the people you've mentioned (maybe not in name, but in description), I wouldn't know half of what I know today if not for their tutorials/tools/research and development articles or other community members sharing what they know with each other. If it wasn't for them, the majority of hacks would not be as fun for even casual players like yourself to play. Just my personal example, but you get my drift.


Maybe you just haven't actually talked or not got to know the community enough? I can't see what else could be making you feel that way unless someone has personally attacked you, in which case take it up with them.


And, on a separate point, because of the fact that ROM hacking is a hobby, and though clearly there are people who are good and bad at stuff in every hobby, separating people into terms like 'elitists' is dumb anyway. Sorry.

 

[Chronosplit]

This topic is about the state of Pokemon Romhacking? Well okay then, brushing all this aside I'll talk about what I think about the GBA area.

I think that the scene was in a rut for a while and started to stagnate, but development in romhacking has really taken off with a second wind recently. On that end I personally feel hacks are divided, but it's more between those who keep informed and those who still use mostly tools/knowledge from 2008-9. Because of this you can even call some hacks "dated" for various reasons (but play what you want, I won't give a hoot). Also, tools have just begun to stabilize again after said second wind. Take for example, G3HS rising after PGE and YAPE ended or MEH gearing up to be A-Map's successor.

Thanks to those who have done quite extensive work (on a level that I personally have never seen outside of Sonic) and the mostly inviting atmosphere of the scene compared to others, Generation 3 has become one of the most versatile and easiest to get into hacking scenes I've ever seen. You can do nearly anything, and more likely than not there's either research, a tutorial, or a tool for what you want to do.

 

[Aethestode]

I don't considered myself as an "expert" nor "casual" hacker. I do agree with you that majority of the hacks are really just different graphic or fakemon but you know... Some people like it.

Anyway, as a hacker who have been hacking for a year, I get extremely frustrated when newbie hacker ask me question on how to hack as there are many guides explaining how to do it. I usually ignore them, if they keep persisting, that's when I reply with an angry mail.

I'm going to be blunt. You're acting like a spoiled brat. Most of those "veteran" hackers created tools so other hackers can make their hack. You complain about how hacker abandon their project... Well... The world doesn't revolve around you. They're not getting paid to do this, don't be selfish. This may come to a shock to you, but hacker have life outside of hacking. Yep, that's right :3.

Now, I never faced any bad criticism from "expert" hackers but I can imagine why they might treat you badly... I mean this thread is basically you ranting about how you should have it "YOUR" way.

Well.. If you're not going to start a hack, then it's probably the best. If you can't handle a simple stress or pressure, you're never going to finish making a hack. In addition, it's really hypocritical how you criticize hackers not completing their hack yet you just straight out abandoned yours before even starting.

 

[JosefigGaming]

Hey, I'm not an expert hacker, or anything remotely close, I'm a newbie
Therefore, I'm in the same standpoint as you. I just happen to have a vastly different opinion
There's a ton of tutorials out there, a dedicated community willing to help you, and if you can't make an hack out of that, it's your own fault.
Maybe you lack dedication, guess what, that happens to everyone. That's why people even give up on their hacks.
I don't know if you'll even read this, so... You know
Don't even know why exactly I posted this :P

 

[LocksmithArmy]

This is rediculous. You seem to say that new hackers cant make cames because they are discouraged by veteran hackers. Maybe a year or so ago i began hacking and not only did i have no issues learning how to use the tools, i had tons of help on aspects i did not understand from these a$$hole veterans you speak of. Since then ive made several hacks that score well on vizzed. And I kniw where the secret board is where all the elites hang. When i need help, i hop on there and ask for help. Quite frankly i dont give a $hit if they call me dumb behind my back or $hit talk my hacks, cause everytime i ask a question i get help. They have never dissuaded me from any crazu idea ive ever had.

And if you consider me one of these elites, i have never stopped anyone from any hack, and i do my best to answer every question that is asked of me. As ive seen everyone else do too.

id like names and instances of 'elites' bashing new kids...

 

[RichterSnipes]

I can kind of see how you might feel this way as someone who is just looking inside of a community without having really been a part of it. There are plenty of more experienced hackers out there who will want newcomers to tread through bumps in the road and learn the craft themselves. That's what they had to do in order to get to where they are, after all. It's a completely valid stance to take on ROM hacking. It's what many refer to as the traditional method of learning. Just like with many other educational concepts out there, figuring out the concepts yourself, or with some information provided by a helper, rather than have answers funneled to you all the time, is an incredibly effective way to learn something. I'd be willing to help anyone who is interested in hacking to the best of my ability. Well, so long as it isn't for something so incredibly obvious or previously spelled out that being inquisitive on it would come from complete ignorance. This is coming from someone who is not an "expert rom hacker," by the way.

Yet I feel as if my mindset is a bit different from that. In my opinion, having a lower barrier of entry could bring in so many more wonderful experiences than we already have. Obviously the integrity and documentation of high-level hacking concepts would have to stay intact. Information on hacking features should be provided when possible so those who want to learn more and properly understand what's going on can do so, but allowing those who just want to do certain things when making hacks the option to do so can't hurt. I'm not sure how realistic a future it is, especially with ASM-based functions, but it seems like a good cause to always find ways to make things more accessible.

If such a future does come to fruition, it would undoubtedly be through some sorts of programs made by those "serious" hackers who apparently provide nothing of worth to the community. Look, it's nice to admire the strength of a creator. However, the creator cannot do much without the existence of devices and assisting tools that made by others. You have to acknowledge the skills, knowledge, and kindness of those who make tools available for public use.

The value of content being created from the "experts", along with the value of certain ROM hacks provided (particularly those specific hacks you mentioned), has already been excellently responded to by others. I'll add this, though. There are plenty of types of ROM hacks of any game that don't interest me, including on PC. However, I can only say that as an absolute for myself. There are tons of others out there with differing opinions. They're all eager to experience a variety of hacks available. If certain hacks don't suit your tastes, then so be it. Just don't muddle other people's views of them in the process or imply that your opinion is a common belief just because you have strong feelings about it.

As for supposed elitists out there...well, it wouldn't surprise me if this site did have at least one of those lurking around. Pretty much every ROM hacking site will have some very small collection of them, it just comes with the territory. However, you make it sound as if this community is primarily comprised of that. To this day I can't name one member on this site who is unequivocally an elitist hacker. I think you might be confusing hacker elitists with hackers with traditional mindsets. Complete, proper understanding of hacking does require putting in the time to learn and become comfortable with hacking concepts yourself. It can be frustrating and upsetting to hear, but a realistic look at things shows that there is true merit in it. Of course, if you really mean actual, bona-fide elitist by definition, I'd say you've got an inaccurate reading of PokéCommunity. Either that, or you might not have been looking at things clearly the moment you made this topic...

As someone who's more emotional than the average person, I can sometimes perceive worse of a community than what it actually is. However, I try to never accuse people of being a certain way without concrete, objective evidence. Learning things is rough and can put you in a more negative mood. So can a perceived tendency for what things in hacks people of a particular site want. I actually feel that pretty often with my differing tastes combined with emotions. But you can't let that allow yourself to unleash your feelings of disgust if they're not founded upon by fact, but instead with just feeling and distorted perceptions of what's actually going on. You have to allow your emotions to settle before making brash statements such as that.

If you think I'm making assumptions on what your mind is, and if you believe those assumptions are wrong, I apologize. I'm just looking at things in a way that seems to make sense based on context, as well as reflecting on my own experiences to perhaps add some perspective.

 

[HidoranBlaze]

Everyone else has practically said what I wanted to say, but I'm gonna say it anyway just for the heck of it. Just letting you know, I don't consider myself an elite hacker at all.

I'll give you my history. I first registered here last year in April. All I figured out back then was A-Text. I didn't know jack about scripting, or mapping, hex editing, etc. I took a long haitus after that, because real life sucks.

I came back here around January/February this year. I had no skills. I knew nothing. So I started reading tutorials. I joined a hacking team, and I improved my skills. (I'm no longer part of it, but that's beside the point) I asked for help. And now? I can script. I can map. I can hex edit. And although I'm not proficient in it by any means at all, I'm delving into ASM hacking. My point is, I've received a lot of help from the "experts" along the way, and I never felt like I was being treated poorly because I was a noob.

I do understand that it's intimidating at first. I'll admit, it was nerve-racking at first when started talking with Gogo, Karatekid, and the other "elite" hackers. I thought they'd chew me out. But they didn't. There are no barriers to asking for help. Well, unless you're asking something really dumb that could be figured out in 10 seconds by searching it on Google.

As for your assertions that the elite hackers are overly condescending towards famous hacks, I haven't really seen that in my 6 months of hacking. Doesnt did stir up some controversy with his LP's of Life of Guardians and Dark Rising. But his criticisms were spot on. Everything Doesnt criticized was a bug/glitch/something to be fixed. He was sarcastic a lot of times, but that's what you get when you present things on the Internet. If you can't swallow criticism, then don't hack. These expert hackers have usually seen the good and bad things hacks have done, and simply want you to improve your hack.

I'll admit, I get frustrated at people sometimes. But that's because they basically don't use common sense at all. Questions like "how do I patch a game" can be answered with a quick search in the tutorial forum. So there shouldn't be any reason for you to get butthurt at all. If people are hating on your hack for no reason, then that's their problem. Ignore their hatred, and move on with life. But honestly, most of the criticism I've seen in this community have been constructive. Calm down.

 

[Full Metal]

(This post discusses the state of the rom hacking community by casual players from vizzed.com and other websites pokemon hacks can be played. Please do not delete this post as it addresses many questions that people feel must be answered or at least, explained. Thank you moderators.)


The rom hacking community has been taken over by nothing but elitist jerks (believe me I wanted to write a different word but I dont want my post erased before I even get to the point).The majority of people who play these rom hacks are casual players just looking for something to play. Rom hacking does not entirely revolve around you "experts". Its almost like these "expert rom hackers" all hang out somewhere in a private chatroom or something and discuss/bash on new/casual hacks. An example of this are the Lurkers (Followers are more like it) that only post on a thread after someone they look up too in the community post.


I have a very important question to the people who consider themselves "veteran/expert" rom hackers; where are YOUR hacks? These serious rom hackers who create all of these tools, all of these enhancements, where are your HACKS? Players dont cares that you're working on a tool for pokemon to follow you outside of battle. Players dont cares that fairy types are added to the Rom or you added new moves. People just want to play Pokemon hacks. Its that simple. I dont understand how people who have so much knowledge of rom hacking can judge others who have completed hacks or have just fun, casual hacks? Is it because you experts cant be original? Heres a question; how come all of the hacks you veteran rom hackers like so much are simply remakes or small modifications of the real gba/ds games? Im speaking on behalf of a lot of ppl (Or the casuals, you know, the people who play rom hacks the most?); when we play a rom hack, we want something original. Something unique. I dont want to play fire red with the only difference is a physical/special split. I dont want to play a hack with the same exact story as fire red only with graphical enhancements.
A few of these hacks you experts feel are so great? Heres something my friend Hound of Justice posted:


""Cobalt by spherical, a good hack with good humor graphics are almost unchanged some nice scripts and bugs here and there
With the biggest problem being not able to save
Nothing special no wonder it didnt got lots of attention and now the hack will be overhauled for the next beta which will take who knows how much time

YetAnotherFRHack by doesnt, just a harder firered with stat changes, some next gen pokemon, move changes this was done like in 50 other hacks
Same person was a judge in the hoty and gave low scores to hacks he only can only dream of making xD
His hack is sitting in the most forgotten section of hacks with a few followers here and there
Again nothing special""
and now we have Platinum Red & Blue...again, solid looking hack, but once again, remake. Darkviolet? Great hack...but its a remake...Canceled (Like most "superior" hacks).


This post is not to bash anyone or anything, believe me. Mods do not delete this post. The hacks posted above are all very good. I just want to discuss the state of rom hacking. You people who feel you're so superior in rom hacking are actually destroying and discouraging players to want to try to create a rom hack of their own. Why cant hacks be fun anymore? Why must all hacks have to live up to some standard you veterans created? Most of you always look down upon or speak negative of people who just want to make a hack, not to create something of great, superb, value. Is it because you want rom hacking to be accepted by an audience it's not attended for? Im sorry; newsflash; rom hacking, no matter how hard you experts try to improve it, will never be known outside of a small, general audience. Once you people sign off of all your rom hacking community website accounts, no one will know, you'll be back to being an ordinary regular person. You created an amazing tool for people to rom hack and now you feel superior enough to look down at hacks that either dont use your tool or dont want to hack to a higher degree? How come you veterans never finish your hacks? Are casual players really suppose to wait years upon years to finally play what you have to offer only for it to be canceled within a year or so which then leads you "experts" to work on something new? We suppose to get our hopes up again? By the time your hack is complete, you'll be too old to be doing this. Too many responsibilities. I'd rather play a hack thats fun with glitches that can be overlooked rather than play something flawless that required more than 7 years to be completed. No one has time to wait for a rom hack like that.


I came here from vizzed.com. Some of the rom hacks you "elitist" consider horrible hacks are scored very high on the site. Why? Because they are fun and dont try to be something more than what is is; A rom hack. Can I another question? Are we casual rom hacking players stupid or inferior because we enjoy hacks you veterans consider garbage? These are serious questions I and a lot others wish to know. I can assure myself lurkers who never post on a thread will be sure to reply to me ONLY IF someone they look up too reply. (Why do you do that?) Will the moderators delete this post? Probably. I am not insulting anyone. Is it because its the truth and even the moderators are apart of this "elitist wave" that's taken over the community? Again, probably. Let me guess, you veterans are helping out the community by creating tools that can be used for future rom hackers? That may be true, but your attitude towards new or casual hackers is hurting the growth of the community more. You cannot have a future without growth.


You want to know why im saying this? Because I was fully ready to begin my own rom hack. But now, after seeing the type of "community" this is, I have no interest anymore. I will simply be judged if its not up to the standard thats been set. Fun hacks cant exist anymore in the eyes of the veterans. Maybe you take this stuff too seriously? Rom hacking wont get you anymore. As I said, once you sign off all your hacking websites, your nobody again. Your username does not bring you fame. Goodbye pokecommunity. I've spent a about 5 months studying the "community" aspect of this place. Its not worth it. Im not the only one who feels this way.

Man, we've got githubs for things. The community is actually really awesome here. I personally don't respond to PM's anymore because quite frankly, I've forgotten a lot of things I used to know because I'm much more interested in programming and web dev than ROM hacking. You sound far more pretentious and elitist as a person than some of the more pompous "veterans" I've ever encountered. I would encourage you to reach out and learn rather than assume everything is intended to insult you. Also, remember that these "veterans" are people too -- they're not resource books or Google, and they don't owe you anything. If you appreciate the help they give you instead of writing angry complaints like this, people will be much more apt to help you. Please do not insult the great members of this community, or the people who contribute so much knowledge to it.

 

[JunePhoenixFire]

A few years ago I posted "The State Of Rom Hacking". Fast forward years later and it stands that everything I stated was correct. The Rom Hacking Community is Dead.
Elitist refused to give actual support to newcomers of the community and as a resulted, we have here what is now called "Fan Games"(Lol talk about a downgraded title). While following the fall of the hack community, I also noticed and picked up on new knowledge that wasn't shared in part 1; here it is-


If A New Hack Doesn't Fit The "Mold" Elitist Have Set, Then It Receives No Recommendation From Them- Seriously, all they support are hacks that are very similar to the games that are actually being hacked. If it doesn't feel like Fire Red, chances are Elitist will complain and want something that feels generic and pretty boring to be honest (Haven't you realized that even newer hacks in the showcase look Exactly like Fire Red?) That's just the game play side of things. When it comes to story telling, let's be honest, the veteran hackers on this site are absolutely terrible. They can't write an original story to save their lives (With a small exception to the Ruby Destiny Series), so when a creative writer comes along that does something out of the ordinary from actual Pokemon games, they don't like it. It bothers them and they find every way to judge the hack in full.


Prime Examples of the paragraph above are Mega Power, Resolute, and to a much lesser extent early on, Glazed (There are much more, but I won't mention them)- Let's address Glazed first and why I placed it here. While yes it got nominated for hack of the year (Which was very sad last year. One hack basically competed with itself), it never got any comments or full blown attention from hackers who have been here long and decide "which are destined for greatness, and which are not". The fans are what decided Glazed placement here, not the elitist.


Mega Power/Resolute are my biggest examples because it receives No Attention from Elitist(Being moved to the showcase doesn't mean Veterans like your hack)- Why? Because it looks and feels different, advanced from the typical Emerald game. The characters, the story, all of it strays far away from the average Pokemon games and in doing so makes Veterans look away from it. Elitist dislike the palette colors of the hack and thus dismiss it regardless how much Players actually enjoy both titles.


While no longer here on Pokecommunity (Which was a smart move to leave), Dark Rising is another title that could belong here in this list as well- Elitist mostly hated it not because of the glitches and such, but because it didn't fit the mold. At all. They called the game terrible, yet, it was the most viewed/downloaded hack available on the community other than Light Platinum, Ruby Destiny, and Snakewood (Although not being on the site in years, it Still has more page views than 90% of the hacks here). The amount of visitors and traffic the hack was bringing in for the Rom hacking community should have been acknowledged by vets, but instead, they poured out their dislike for it despite hundreds of Players saying how much they loved it (If I dare say, the fall of the hacking community's popular decreased rapidly after the Dark Rising series left). The creator of the series made their own website and recently shared their statistics online. The site is receiving over 8 thousands views in a Week, that's more than the "top" hacks here receive in a Month. How could the hack be considered Terrible if it's being played that many times and has a bigger following than every hack on the community? I would love to see one of these elitist remove their hack off of this site and see how popular it really is. It would fail.


Next, I would like to address the Hack of the Year for 2016- Pokemon Gaia (Made by someone who is considered a veteran on this site) won by basically competing with itself and it really showed just how much Rom Hacking has declined. Gaia was Boring and it feels like a basic Fire Red with enhancements, but as I stated previously, that's what the Veterans of this community love and that's why it's in the position that it's in now. Doing something new would have you looked down on here. Look at the recent additions to the showcase, they all have the same Fire Red overworlds and slightly enhanced tiles.


While everything I said in this addition of "The State Of Rom Hacking" is true, it won't matter in the end. A Mod will delete this and pretend it was never posted. It also doesn't matter because the Rom Hacking Community Is Dead. There are rarely any new hacks being posted and the small bits of attention Pokemon Rom hacking was receiving for a while have completely died down. No one cares for it anymore.
"Fan Games" are in the Grave.

 

[COOLTRAINER♂]

Fan games are a different type of game that aren't posted in this section.

 

[Christos]

text

Personally, I don't like hacks like Dark Rising and Mega Power/Resolute. They might have an interesting story but the level curve, bugs and the strange mix of graphics and average maps discouraged me from playing them for long. Both creators are focusing more on quantity and not quality, and it shows.

The majority of people who play ROM hacks are young and not experienced with ROM hacking or any kind of game design and they find hacks like the ones you mentioned enjoyable. And that's fine, it's personal taste. You say you don't like Gaia because it looks too much like Fire Red, but that's your opinion. From what I've seen, the majority of people who enjoy hacks like Dark Rising and Glazed are also enjoying Gaia. People do tend to prefer hacks with "new" graphics over the default ones, but it's rare for hacks to actually pull that off. Pokémon Life is a good example.

I am unsure what you mean by hacks not getting attention and support from "elitists" and "veterans". Should older users post their feedback in every hack thread posted? From my experience, veteran ROM hackers or ROM hacking regulars rarely post in hack threads, and no one's expecting them to. Older users tend to like hacks that feel similar to the original games, but again, that's personal taste.

Anyway, to me it looks like your post is just hating on some veterans for not having the same taste in ROM hacks as you. The community hosts events such as Hack of the Month to promote new ROM hacks, and the result is up to all the members. Hacks get support and feedback from all kinds of users. I don't see why veterans not liking some hacks worries you so much.