Debate Abortion

We haven't had an abortion debate in a good minute! Please be respectful, and no mukposting pls.

To start, here are a few basic questions -
What are your overall views on abortion?
Should a country's government be allowed to make it legal or illegal?
Do you think the Plan B / Morning After pill is a form of abortion as well?

If you're pro-choice, what limitations (if any) do you think should be put on abortion? Do you believe they should only be allowed in extreme circumstances, such as rape / incest? How late in the pregnancy should an abortion be allowed?
If you're against abortion, why? Is it for religious reasons? Are you against abortion even in extreme circumstances (named above), or if the pregnancy risks the mother's life? Do you support the idea of free birth control to help prevent pregnancies?

Surprising, this thread hasn't fallen into absolute chaos yet.

In all seriousness though, I'm kind of on the position of pro-life for myself (except in extreme situations) and pro-choice for others. To put it simply, I wouldn't really get an abortion myself unless there are some extreme situations, but for others, I would say that access should be restricted after 20 weeks (when the fetus is viable) (not sure if that is the correct timeframe for viability). On the topic of birth control, I would say that it wouldn't really count as an abortion since most of the time, it's a precaution to prevent a pregnancy where an abortion is ending a pregnancy in progress.

I am absolutely pro-choice, the government shouldn't have any sort of sovereignty over a person's body or their access to care. Birth control should absolutely be free, it doesn't only prevent pregnancy and can help regulate and balance hormones for a lot of people. I don't see plan B or the morning after pill as abortion because there is no baby, it's literally just an egg at that point.

I'm pro-choice, and the only restriction I care for is not allowing abortion in the 3rd trimester, but with an exception for medical emergencies and such.

The thing with banning abortion is that banning it won't stop it from happening. Murder and theft have been illegal for thousands of years, yet they still occur every single year. Prohibition in the US didn't go too well. People will simply engage in unsafe methods to abort instead since the safe methods are gone.

There are however things you can do to reduce the number of abortions that could ever need to be done. Support better sex education, provide universal, easy, and cheap access to contraceptives, improve the adoption and foster care system, give better maternity leave, etc. Yet a lot of lawmakers who are anti-abortion are not that interested in pursuing any of these.

It's better to have the option and not need it than to need it and not have it.

I waffle a bit between pro life and pro choice, I would say if push comes to shove I would say it should be capped at 3 months ( 12 weeks ) as getting into 5 months ( 20 weeks ) seems way to far along and gruesome.

I believe barring rape, that the father should have some consent in the situation regarding termination.

As for contraceptives I do not consider the day after pill to be abortion.

I am pro-choice. I believe that women have the right to make decisions regarding their own bodies. However, I personally view abortion as immoral and would only get one myself unless it was absolutely necessary (if my life was at risk, for instance). Although, just because I am uncomfortable with abortion doesn't mean that I need to impose those views on other people.

Furthermore, abortions will happen regardless if they are legal or not. Banning them entirely puts women at risk as they may seek other potentially dangerous options to terminate their pregnancy.

As with any medical procedure, it should be thoroughly discussed in a professional manner between doctor and patient, so that the patient may make the best choice. Basically I am pro choice and I don't think its anyone's business if a woman has an abortion.

There are literally thousands of people dying every day as it is, and in tragic immoral ways at that. I would rather ensure that every new human that is born is wanted and has as good a situation as possible, than force unhappy women to put more humans into the world. A man doesn't have a right to a baby that wasn't planned or wanted from the start, is my overall opinion. Especially not if fair prevention methods were used and an accidental pregnancy still happened. Certainly not old men in the government for religious reasons.

I really take issue with the phrase "pro life" because a lot of these people also vote for politicians who completely screw over kids and young parents. A leading factor in modern abortion is financial stability. That contributed to me and a former partner having one. If you vote for people who continuously attack the welfare state, who continuously push to keep decent sex ed out of schools, who refuse to make birth control widely available and free then you ain't pro life, you're anti choice. There's no sanctity of life in the equation if your care for the kid ends the second they're born.

i am fiercely pro choice. i think abortion should be allowed as an option until the third trimester (exceptions can be made if the birth of the child would cause life threatening harm to the baby or pregnant individual). i dont think the non-pregnant parent should have a say in what the pregnant person wants. and, of course, in the case of rape, abortion should always be an option. the rapists thought on the matter shouldnt even be asked.

all forms of birth control (including condoms) should be free.

there are too many unwanted children on this planet. too many that are born to impoverished parents that can barely afford to feed them and too many that are given away to already packed orphanages; some of them to never be adopted. it's sad. keep abortion legal and birth control free/affordable. i don't even know why this is a debate still.

For me, it's difficult to say if I am pro-life or pro-choice. Morally, I believe that abortions are wrong, but I'm not in a position to be the judge on why a woman would ever get one. However, I do believe that there are better alternatives to abortion, such as adoption, if someone is not able to parent a newborn. I can agree that abortion would be necessary if a woman was raped as well.

Tsutarja said:

For me, it's difficult to say if I am pro-life or pro-choice. Morally, I believe that abortions are wrong, but I'm not in a position to be the judge on why a woman would ever get one. However, I do believe that there are better alternatives to abortion, such as adoption, if someone is not able to parent a newborn. I can agree that abortion would be necessary if a woman was raped as well.

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So you believe that even if two individuals used protection but got pregnant anyways, the pregnant person should morally have to carry the child to birth and part with it after, which could potentially be an even more traumatizing experience than having an early abortion?

On a personal and spiritual level, I disagree with abortion and am deeply saddened by it. I think everyone deserves a chance at life. However, I am pro-choice. I have no wish to impose my views on other women and think abortion should be their decision. Making this process illegal won't decrease unwanted pregnancies, so women will then have to resort to unsafe methods, bringing about even more trauma. Others have no right to make these decisions for us, especially considering the circumstances unique to every woman when she becomes pregnant. Who are we to judge her for her reasons?

Contraception needs to be affordable and accessible to everyone, and more effort should be put into supporting the people who must endure these traumatic, life-changing decisions.

However, I do believe that there are better alternatives to abortion, such as adoption, if someone is not able to parent a newborn.

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I think everyone deserves a chance at life.

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people shouldnt go around having babies that they cant raise for whatever reason it may be. shitty parents/being orphaned are both traumatic for children to experience, which really is not better than just not bringing even more children into the world. if a child is abused because theyre unwanted and "ruined their parents life", is that really the better option than not having a chance at life for a fetus that is about as alive as a sperm cell?

Gentle reminder that it's not just women who may experience unwanted pregnancies, trans men and other AFAB people also have a role in this discussion and are almost always excluded from it, either because of malice or just plain careless wording.

Like Hands, I think pro life is an extremely hypocritical phrase because of all the harm people who support that ideology are doing to actual living children. Such people are anti choice, not pro anything at all. So if you hadn't guessed from reading this far, I'm pro choice.

I have long been in the position where neither pro-life or pro-choice are very fond of how I feel about the subject. I think that there are absolutely circumstances - where lives are at risk among a few others - where at the very least it becomes reasonable to consider abortion a reasonable option. However, I think a lot of - arguably most - people on the pro-choice side of the debate are, for want of a better term, too abortion happy.

People who are not prepared to risk pregnancy shouldn't be engaging in activities likely to lead to pregnancy. If you voluntarily have sex, even with contraception, you're acknowledging that there is a risk of getting pregnant. Other living beings shouldn't have to die because you can't handle the results of your actions and there are other options available outside of abortion - although I agree that often these institutions need to be improved on and frankly I think a lot of the money spent campaigning for pro-life or pro-choice laws would be better spent improving those institutions.

It's a murky and complicated area, and I think it's probably hard to find the 100% correct way of doing things. Personally, I don't think abortion should be outright illegal, but I do think that it should be a lot more heavily regulated than the majority of the pro-choice side of things want. I also agree that a lot of the energy spent constantly debating this would be better spent on improving foster/orphanage/whatever your country does systems and reducing the likelihood of unwanted pregnancies by giving better access to contraceptives and providing better sex education.

Also, while I agree that the ultimate decision comes down to the person carrying the baby, I agree that the father should have a fair say in the choice. It takes two people to have a child, but it only takes one to raise it.

Wavee said:

people shouldnt go around having babies that they cant raise for whatever reason it may be. shitty parents/being orphaned are both traumatic for children to experience, which really is not better than just not bringing even more children into the world. if a child is abused because theyre unwanted and "ruined their parents life", is that really the better option than not having a chance at life for a fetus that is about as alive as a sperm cell?

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While I don't have any statistics it strikes me that any child in such a situation would prefer to be alive than to have been violently dismembered and sucked out of the womb.

Maybe there is a study based on children's feelings toward not having been born/current situation in an orphanage or something.

Embryos are not children.

Rainbow said:

Embryos are not children.

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Okay, that is debatable, but does not invalidate the question of a child that has been born into a mukty situation would prefer to be alive than to be aborted. Especially if such a manner would involve dismemberment through vacuum hose. Or to be born half way and then have their skull punctured and compressed so that they can be removed the rest of the way.

abortion is a matter of trading one prospective life (or lives, possibly) for the expected prosperity, or at least current status, of the parent/s and their belief to have a child on their own terms. it is not easy. it can scar you. regrets are part of the process for most, regardless of the decision. i'm not one of the pro-choice crowd that try to downplay the idea that the embryo is a life, as the 'clump of cells' argument decries why it is such an emotive decision to begin with. it is a clump of cells, but it has the likelihood of being the centre of your life. however, i consider the well-being and autonomy of those outside the womb to take higher priority than a life that has not exited the womb. the gift of life is a wonderful thing - and while many wonderful people have come out of unwanted situations, and just as many planned pregnancies can create misery and suffering, i do not consider the possibility of prosperity for the embryo to outweigh the autonomy of those responsible for its creation.