Open world Pokémon games: yay or nay?

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Sheep

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    Scarlet and Violet were the first main series games to be open world. They don't make the experience ideal - for example, the lack of level scaling makes the experience still fairly linear - but the games still feel quite different to previous main series titles, and not everyone may adjust.

    What do you think about Pokémon going open world? Do you want this to continue, or did you prefer the games before they decided to take this step? What improvements would you make to open world Pokémon games?
     
    Open world games can be a lot of fun and a couple of them are some of my favorite games, but I think a lot of companies saw the success of certain open world games and just thought that "marketing the game as open world=easy money", and that's why we've gotten a number of substandard open world games over the years. They didn't really understand or care to understand what can make an open world game enjoyable, nor the work required to do so.

    So like, I'd be fine with Pokemon continuing to make open world games, but given we're talking about Game Freak and their tight, rushed schedule, I'd also be fine with them not doing more open world stuff since they'll probably not be able to push out something way better than SV.
     
    Goes with yay on open world. Theoretically allows better replayability by doing objectives in a completely different order. Enjoys trying to figure out how to access something powerful early too on a second playthrough.

    Flubbed the execution in Scarlet/Violet. Lacked enough draws to venture into the wild. Considers new Pokemon one such draw. Needed things like sidestories out there. Perhaps a lost child. Stumbles across a Pokemon being beaten up by others. Could have stormed some Pokemon snatcher den. Overheard whispers about some angry Pokemon causing big thunderstorms every night. Discovers a map about hidden/sunken treasure. Investigates a ruined vehicle for clues on what happened. Hey, why is the ground rumbling in the distance?

    Gave the world no character, in other words.
     
    Some of both. I like that I can go pretty much anywhere on the map- especially now with flight for Koraidon/Miraidon- and fly/travel all over the region(s). I can feel like someone in the anime and get into various odd places and etc. And getting to choose which story things I want to do and in what order is great, too. However, I didn't like that there wasn't really some established path regarding what gyms/Team Star bases/Titans my team was ready to face- at some point I just went online and looked up the levels of each and what would be a good order to do them in. If I have to go through all of that, they might as well have just put it in there in the first place- or at least some level-scaling like other people have said, so you are more free to do the different quests in any order. They at least did that somewhat with the Tera raids- you didn't get a 5+ star Tera raid when you only had one or two badges.
     
    Open world and linear level progression are two conflicting gameplay elements sabotaging each other. It has to be one or the other.

    Illusion of freedom is pointless when game progression is still tied to a fixed level curve and the best way to experience the game is still playing everything in the correct order., especially for players who want things as fair and balanced as possible.

    It could work in certain action RPG games with a level progression, where your equipment and player skills in dodging and parrying attacks might compensate for a lower level and allow to defeat much stronger enemies that you're supposed to fight later... But in a turn based RPG? If they want to make open world Pokémon games, they should rework the level system if not get rid of it entirely.

    Auto level scaling alone won't solve everything either. If Falkner, as 1st gym leader, has just a Pidgey (9) and a Pidgeotto (13) with garbage moves like Gust and Sand Attack, changing his team to the same Pokémon with the same moves but with +30 levels because you fought it much later would make even less sense, because a stronger gym leader isn't just "more levels", its entire team, amount of Pokémon, move sets, and items (if they bother using items) need to be remade and have different versions for different parts of the game depending when the player decides to fight them.
     
    Honestly: Eh.

    Things like an open-world model and crafting are trends that sprung to prominence in the 2010s. Literally, every other game was touting its "sprawling open world" and "unique crafting system" as a selling point.
    And I just, have never ever cared.

    I liked Paldea. For Game Freaks genuine attempt at a fully open world, it wasn't too bad at all - it was fun to explore with some decently varied terrain. It was fun to hunt down Pokemon, and the fact that items "dropped by travelling people" continuously spawning in the overworld kept things feeling alive.

    They still didn't quite land the level scaling issue by giving the Gym Leaders fixed levels. Don't get me wrong, there needs to be some limits in place to prevent players from lucky-catching a level 65 Garchomp and steamrolling the game, so the obedience-caps was a good touch, but the Gym Leaders should check the level of your strongest Pokemon, and use a different team accordingly. Seriously, Pokemon Origins spelt it out years ago and it's perfectly easily coded.

    With all of this said, I can take it or leave it. I've spent some time replaying gens 3, 4 and 5 this past year, obviously none of which are open world. They're still plenty of fun. So if Game Freak decided to go back to a more linear type of gameplay, that'll be fine too.

    Sidenote, I will never need crafting in my Pokemon games. It's just an extra unnecessary layer of inventory. Gimme the items, not the items-to-make-the-items.
     
    I love the concept of an open world Pokemon game (the whole series is pretty much built on exploration); but while I enjoyed my time in Paldea, Game Freak seriously needs to work on their programming/optimization skills before they try another one. It's embarrassing that SV released in 2022 and looks like an N64 game at many points, while launch Switch titles run laps around it graphically.
     
    I know I may anger some fans of old traditional games, but open world is still the future of gaming. It's not to say taking a step back to their roots is a bad thing, some people would like this and others would think the creative department is getting lazy or taking a step back, I don't think this however. That being said there is flaws in open world gaming. First the size of the game world can overwhelm the development team, therefore, causing the following: a repetitive uninterested scenery that'll not captivate the gaming audience often being samy or looking like other open world games, players getting lost in the region (this could be a good for discovery depending on who wants this.) I also have to admit despite the games being hand holdy, I still got lost in paldea and remember using the map more than previous games which isn't a bad thing. Laggy frame rates with how much the game has to process, overall feeling of emptiness and scrambled disorientation if they don't know what to do with the overarching side quests, NPCs or environments. Unfortunately these 3 points make it seem like a game is rushed. If they take more time to program and develop open world Pokemon games, they could perfect it to a point majority of the fanbase will enjoy the over world option and fix the overall issues the fan base has. It's not possible to please all fans though. Still shouldn't be forced upon, they should still have the traditional formula as backup, as those games feel more stable, nostalgic and complete.
     
    giradialkia said:
    Honestly: Eh.

    Things like an open-world model and crafting are trends that sprung to prominence in the 2010s. Literally, every other game was touting its "sprawling open world" and "unique crafting system" as a selling point.
    And I just, have never ever cared.

    I liked Paldea. For Game Freaks genuine attempt at a fully open world, it wasn't too bad at all - it was fun to explore with some decently varied terrain. It was fun to hunt down Pokemon, and the fact that items "dropped by travelling people" continuously spawning in the overworld kept things feeling alive.

    They still didn't quite land the level scaling issue by giving the Gym Leaders fixed levels. Don't get me wrong, there needs to be some limits in place to prevent players from lucky-catching a level 65 Garchomp and steamrolling the game, so the obedience-caps was a good touch, but the Gym Leaders should check the level of your strongest Pokemon, and use a different team accordingly. Seriously, Pokemon Origins spelt it out years ago and it's perfectly easily coded.

    With all of this said, I can take it or leave it. I've spent some time replaying gens 3, 4 and 5 this past year, obviously none of which are open world. They're still plenty of fun. So if Game Freak decided to go back to a more linear type of gameplay, that'll be fine too.

    Sidenote, I will never need crafting in my Pokemon games. It's just an extra unnecessary layer of inventory. Gimme the items, not the items-to-make-the-items.
    Click to expand...

    I completely agree with this- the gym leaders having different teams depending on your strongest Pokémon (or possibly the number of gym badges you have) would definitely help you have a more original playthrough, and it would solve one of the problems that Corveone mentioned. If someone is your first gym leader, they would have Pokémon whose levels would be around 10-20 and be Pokémon like Pidgey or Geodude with weaker moves like Tackle and Peck- if you challenge them later on, their team would be stronger, such as with a Pidgeot or Golem with more advanced and poowerful moves like Fly and Stone Edge.
     
    Yay. However, they need to level scale so it's truly open world then Pokemon can thrive in the genre.
     
    I feel as though open world for Pokémon probably works better for the games that specifically focus on that feature, like Legends Arceus. Scarlet and Violet was extremely ambitious, and it could have been much better if it was in development for many more years, the open world aspect of it sadly makes a lot of it look buggy and unfinished/unpolished when it hasn't been worked on for long enough. I also liked what they did with the Wild Area in SWSH, only having some areas of the game open world - maybe they could have done similar for SV with aspects like the Terrarium? This being said, I haven't played SV myself. I care about this series deeply and if Pokémon is going in this direction, I'd like to see it done with a lot more care.
     
    Open world games can be fun... if you actually fill it with lots of interesting or worthwhile things to do. SV just... doesn't really have anything to do aside from the main story and completing the PokeDex. Give us some side quests like coming across a group of trainers near a cave who are scared to go in and you have to go find their friend or a Pokemon or something.
    Some interactions with Pokemon in the wild would be nice too. Anything you bump into SV will be fought. Why not just have like some hungry Pokemon follow you and you can feed them? Potentially with a chance for it to ask to be caught by you afterward, to name one example.

    Given all the stuff in the PokeDex there's just so much they could do... but they just haven't.

    One problem I have with SV is that it really needed level scaling as well as team adjustment. Like say: if you fight say the Bug gym first it would just be a couple low level Bug types. However if you fight it last the Pokemon should become fully evolved, have better moves and additionally the gym leader should have a bigger team. None of the gym leaders have more than 4 Pokemon. The last one should have at least 5 Pokemon imo.
    They could easily tie this in with a badge check imo

    So basically: flesh out the world more & gives us side stuff to do + bosses that adjust to how far in the game you are. Not just referring to the Gym leaders here. The titans and Team Star bases should've scaled up accordingly as well.
     
    Pass. I'm fully burned out on 'big open world games'. Now if it was a much smaller, very dense open world, that would be different.
     
    Completely agree, @ReKoil - they level scaled just fine with your battles with Nemona (from what I remember, so correct me if that's wrong), they just need to do that with everyone and everything else. And new side quests, adventures, situations, and etc. would be completely major! Like what we see in the anime- it's never just about catching and battling, you have all these other stories going on as well that all tie together. A problem I seem to have with Scarlet and Violet is, after having completed all the main stories, all that's really left in the game for me to do is catching and training Pokémon. Sure we had some small side things in the additional content with that rich couple, the photographer, the Kitakami Ogre clan, and so forth, but that was all- we don't get new quests and events, and your enjoyment of the game sort of grinds to a halt, or near to that.

    To mention another game I play that does it really well (although it's an online multiplayer game, so it's different from Scarlet and Violet) is Star Wars: The Old Republic. It does a major job with being an open world (or open galaxy, rather) game. They scale the planets that you're on, and with the story you're playing in (eight different class stories) they've put it in an order so you aren't going from a level 12-17 planet and then a level 44-50 one. And if a player is on a, say, 18-24 level world and is a higher level like 54, they and their stats are temporarily changed to the planet's max level (24 in this case) so it's fair for everyone. There are also tons of side missions and quests that you can do, with some even being repeatable so you can do them over and over again. They also have Light Side/Dark Side options you can choose which can impact how the story goes, which Pokémon doesn't really seem to have. I think someone else mention here or somewhere else how the Pokémon games don't really have much choice during conversations in them, even just cycling back to the question if you choose the option 'No' until you agree to whatever is being requested of you. It would be great if we got more conversation options in these games.
     
    I think Pokemon is one of these franchises that can work very well with open world design. You have a ton of creatures so in a big world you can have all kinds of places where they can hide. Finding rare Pokemon becomes a fun reward for exploration quite easily.

    I like SV. But my main complaint about those games is that they don't feel lived-in. The NPCs don't feel like actual people and the Pokemon don't really do anything meaningful, either. There's just so much potential.

    Then again, I don't think GF is fully to blame for any sort of shortcoming in that regard. Nintendo themselves are kinda notorious about focusing more on providing a playing ground than putting effort into creating "believable" worlds. ^^"
     
    If Pokemon is going to be open world it should be done correctly. It's easy to cash in on a trendy genre. At the very least, I hope they make the Pokemon feel more like living creatures akin to Pokemon Snap. Or provide more things to do in the towns. They felt like blank slates in Generation 9.
     
    I'll pick no. It got marketed as that huge step for pokemon to be open world, but honestly, all it did was making things worse for me.

    There is no level scaling, so the entire promise of "you can do the gyms and all in the order you personally prefer" is just on paper. In reality, you will most likely return to a specific order. Because it is not really fun for most players to get outleveled by enemy pokemon by 15 levels
     
    The only way to make pokemon work as open world is to fill the world with pokemon (no game has even close to do that) so they are living animals and have zones where you have to leave your pokemon gained in each zone left in each zone (at least most of them) so you keep mixing up the challenges and they can roughly even difficulty of battles in each zone.
     
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